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Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time

ruben.verborgh.org

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Re: Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time

#51

Post by rubenverborgh »

Sargos wrote: post #2

Solid looks to be trying to reimplement what platforms like Ethereum are already building. The same ethos is there and this is very well written but I wonder if the Solid project just missed that when doing their research. Hopefully all of their efforts don't go to waste and they can extend some of their work to the broader decentralized web community.

No: blockchain technologies are about reaching decentralized agreements. Solid is about everyone being able to write their own things (so no agreement) without centralized parties.

Re: Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time

#52

Post by cordonbleu »

kodablah wrote: post #8

I think the part ignored by so many is the need to decentralize the computers into the home. I'm not talking meshes or shared resources. For the majority of use cases, we don't need distributed storage, compute, etc. Just start making these self-hosted "servers", "data pods", etc as easy to install as desktop software and make it clear that they are inaccessible when the computer is off. People that aren't already wi…

there is a "deprecated?" server software. i use it daily, its called Pichat, and so far it seems to be deleted from the internet. it is a chat server/webserver/fileserver. it comes in linux, and win version it is on horde as well as the SDK for it. Tell me if you would like to know more. this is not my software, if you [whomever that may be] are the person or part of the team that created this [pichat] please chime in.

Re: Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time

#53

Post by hathawsh »

kodablah wrote: post #43
hathawsh wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be a marketplace for apps running on home routers. It would change the Internet as we know it. Developers should be able to create router apps and submit them to marketplaces and users should be able to install router apps of their choice with just a few taps. Routers have a few key advantages over most other computing devices owned by the public: routers normally have a public (non-NAT) IP address, they…

The obvious problem with in-home edge compute like that is the shittyness of router implementations, combined with the shitty software out there, combined with the lack of common interfacing with the router by a human just begs to open up a world of devices to botnets. Needs to be interfaced with by humans regularly.

Right. Whoever does this needs to be competent at building a safe, stable, and usable router OS.

Re: Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time

#54

Post by rubenverborgh »

orthecreedence wrote: post #4

I've read a bit about Solid in the past, but never quite understood how it will handle different data models. Does it force social data to all look the same (as in, have a predefined set of fields)? If not, how do apps built on it interoperate? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for projects like this. I think it's wonderful. I just never really got how the apps will work with the same data without being forced into a parti…

You can mix and match parts from different vocabularies on the Web. See it as a JSON object where you can add any key you want, except that some of those keys have meaning to some applications. Apps don't have to understand everything, they just access what they need.

Re: Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time

#55

Post by teleclimber »

amelius wrote: post #19
kodablah wrote: post #8

I think the part ignored by so many is the need to decentralize the computers into the home. I'm not talking meshes or shared resources. For the majority of use cases, we don't need distributed storage, compute, etc. Just start making these self-hosted "servers", "data pods", etc as easy to install as desktop software and make it clear that they are inaccessible when the computer is off. People that aren't already wi…

One problem is still asymmetric upload/download speeds for many (most) home connections. Often upload is 10x slower than download.

And users expect their internet services to be fast. If every request involves leaving the backbone to go all the way into your home and then back out again, good luck with that.

I think the better solution is to leverage cheap vms. At least performance stands a chance. It's just a matter of making cloud computers accessible and usable to non technical people.

Re: Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time

#56

Post by cslarson »

rubenverborgh wrote: post #51
Sargos wrote: post #2

Solid looks to be trying to reimplement what platforms like Ethereum are already building. The same ethos is there and this is very well written but I wonder if the Solid project just missed that when doing their research. Hopefully all of their efforts don't go to waste and they can extend some of their work to the broader decentralized web community.

No: blockchain technologies are about reaching decentralized agreements. Solid is about everyone being able to write their own things (so no agreement) without centralized parties.

The Ethereum project is about providing a complete decentralized web3 stack - not just a blockchain, though the database layer that provides is a critical part of it.

Re: Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time

#57

Post by peterwwillis »

The web is decentralized, and we already have control of our data. The problem is, people keep giving it away.

I'm fairly confident that 98% of the population of the earth doesn't give a crap that their data is collected, or that they don't "control" it. This whole "decentralized web" thing is just privacy nerds trying to convince us that we need this, when really no regular consumer is asking for it.

Re: Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time

#58

Post by zozbot123 »

hathawsh wrote: post #53
kodablah wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious problem with in-home edge compute like that is the shittyness of router implementations, combined with the shitty software out there, combined with the lack of common interfacing with the router by a human just begs to open up a world of devices to botnets. Needs to be interfaced with by humans regularly.

Right. Whoever does this needs to be competent at building a safe, stable, and usable router OS.

OpenWRT/LEDE is a thing. But don't expect cheap home routers to be able to run useful services-- the cheapest hardware is truly bottom-of-the-barrel, even OpenWRT had to drop support for lots of devices.
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