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Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

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Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#91

Post by RHSeeger »

SquareWheel wrote: post #76
RHSeeger wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. Unfortunately, it tends to be pointed towards Evil much of the time.

Why, because they show you ads for tracked interests? Something they're quite upfront about, and allow you to opt-out of if you'd like. Is that so "evil" that it somehow outweighs the hundreds of open-source projects they've released? Or the extremely useful free-services they provide like Maps and Search? The thousands of jobs they've created in our industry? The new protocols they've released for free to the IETF?…

Actually, I don't have a large problem with them showing ads and trying to know enough about me to do so properly. I'd appreciate it if you didn't attack me over your mistaken ideas regarding my thoughts.

- They release good versions of existing products, let people use it for free or cheap, and then (when all the other companies making said product type give up because they can't compete), they discard the product and leave people without any version of it.

- They forced a horrible social platform on everyone. I don't have a problem with them creating the platform; experimentation and variety are good. I do, however, have a problem with them forcing people to use it in order to use other products they own.

- There's other items in my list of reasons to think Google is out for it's own benefit, and the rest of us can slowly die as long as they make money.

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#92

Post by mav3rick »

Despegar wrote: post #2

I mean sure. Google certainly doesn't want wireless carriers to compete with them in advertising, and everyone having access to location data from smartphones just devalues Google's own access. https://qz.com/1131515/google-collects-android-users-locatio...

When they don't protest you will say Google sucks. When they do protest you say Google sucks. Bravo.

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#93

Post by wvaughan »

vanattab wrote: post #88

Ask HN: Is anyone here happy with Google Fi service? I ordered a Pixel 3 phone directly from Google Fi and signed up for service with Google Fi the end of December. When I ordered the phone it showed up as in stock and estimated I would get my phone by the 4th of January. On the 2nd I got an email saying that the phone shipping was delayed and I would receive an email when it ships. I have heard nothing from google s…

I've been on it for a month and have been really happy with the service. That said I brought my own devices and haven't had to deal with the support team at all.

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#94

Post by kodablah »

max76 wrote: post #73
piyush_soni wrote: post #44

How people's sentiments change here based on who tries to protect their privacy. If it's Apple, "wow, they are god's own people with purest intentions of protecting users' privacy". When Google does it : "Yeah, because they want to sell it themselves so obviously they don't want any competition".

It's simple. Apple doesn't use location data in their products. Google does. Apple specifically avoids these types of products. Google's main revenue stream depends on them.

This is about partnering with carriers that do bad things. One company that partnered with these carriers said "stop that" (granted not with enough eagerness/transparency for me). Another that partners with carriers remains mum.

> Apple specifically avoids these types of products.

No, Apple specifically partners with the companies selling this stuff and don't care at all. They could easily issue a statement saying they disagree with those they shake hands and share money with, but they won't. Google will though.

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#95

Post by 124816 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #68
TACIXAT wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a difference between allowing ads to target an area and selling someone's real time location. I'm against the collection of data generally because that data can always end up in court, but Google has never given people access to my real time location.

> but Google has never given people access to my real time location. As long as your Google account remains secured and no one manages to sneak a 2nd Google Account on your phone, that is. Find My Phone is a real time tracker that can be abused e.g. by spouses or stalkers. IIRC only triggering the "audible ring" leaves a trace on the phone (a notification + the obvious sound), to check if someone used FMP for trackin…

> IIRC only triggering the "audible ring" leaves a trace on the phone (a notification + the obvious sound), to check if someone used FMP for tracking one has to dive deep into the Google Activity Logs.

Not true, a notification is shown whenever the device is located.

Though if someone can "sneak a 2nd Google Account" onto your phone they can probably install something more nefarious and less observable.

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#96

Post by andybak »

pwg wrote: post #87
ariwilson wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. If you already know where someone is, what's the point of using targeted ads to try to locate them? The point of OP is that I can't use targeted ads to answer the question "Person X: where are they?".

I'm saying that the underlying data is the same for both, so allowing one (targeted ads based on location) provides the data necessary for "locate where someone lives/works/hangs out/etc.". With the result that you have to believe that the "targeted ads" provider is both secure and ethical.

> With the result that you have to believe that the "targeted ads" provider is both secure and ethical.

"Secure enough" and "ethical enough". Plenty of organisations know stuff about me that I'd prefer not to be public or sold to the highest bidder. They might leak it to the government or one day be the target of a megahack - but I file that under either "meh" or under "acceptable risk".

But luckily

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#97

Post by zachberger »

vanattab wrote: post #88

Ask HN: Is anyone here happy with Google Fi service? I ordered a Pixel 3 phone directly from Google Fi and signed up for service with Google Fi the end of December. When I ordered the phone it showed up as in stock and estimated I would get my phone by the 4th of January. On the 2nd I got an email saying that the phone shipping was delayed and I would receive an email when it ships. I have heard nothing from google s…

Note: I'm a Googler but I've used Fi since its inception and log before I was a Googler. These are my thoughts alone.

I have had times where it took 45 minutes to reach Fi support which was very frustrating. And looking on the Google Fi subreddit you're not the only one with the shipping issues. That being said, I've only had outstanding interactions with their support department. I had reoccurring problems with my Nexus 6P and they RMAd it several times, overnight.

I've found their coverage and WiFi calling to be better here in Mountain View than Verizon. It is hard to beat their experience when travelling internationally, you pay the same as you would domestically, and you have access to the high speed networks. The Fi app is beautiful, and doesn't try to sell you anything. I recently checked out the Verizon app and its 90% ads and 10% useful.

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#98

Post by dna_polymerase »

max76 wrote: post #70
Ajedi32 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big difference is Google doesn't sell that data to third parties; they just use it for ad targeting. There's a big difference between the company that makes my phone's OS knowing my location, and anyone willing to pay a few bucks knowing the same. (Also it looks like in the situation described in the article you linked, they didn't even use the data for ad targeting: "we never incorporated Cell ID into our networ…

The difference exists only to the point that Google is an ethical owner of the data. I'm concerned that Google is in the business selling products based on a monopoly of consumer data. These products are likely to become more and more invasive as time goes on.. It's possible that a future Google product will become a larger threat to privacy than geolocation because they have a wider variety of data collected. In sum…

The only ethical owner of my data is myself. Whatever Google says now is worthless the second growth stalls and shareholders want to see more.

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#99

Post by sjs382 »

vanattab wrote: post #88

Ask HN: Is anyone here happy with Google Fi service? I ordered a Pixel 3 phone directly from Google Fi and signed up for service with Google Fi the end of December. When I ordered the phone it showed up as in stock and estimated I would get my phone by the 4th of January. On the 2nd I got an email saying that the phone shipping was delayed and I would receive an email when it ships. I have heard nothing from google s…

I've been a customer since April 2016 (with a Nexus 5, moto x4 and a Pixel 3 XL) and I've been very happy with Project Fi.

Their service and support have been wonderful, including replacing a device twice (with overnight shipping) free of charge, outside of warranty.

I haven't had a desire to cancel my service, so I can't help you with the cancel button being missing. :)

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#100

Post by drak0n1c »

TACIXAT wrote: post #51
Despegar wrote: post #2

I mean sure. Google certainly doesn't want wireless carriers to compete with them in advertising, and everyone having access to location data from smartphones just devalues Google's own access. https://qz.com/1131515/google-collects-android-users-locatio...

I think there is a difference between allowing ads to target an area and selling someone's real time location. I'm against the collection of data generally because that data can always end up in court, but Google has never given people access to my real time location.

Google's own location timeline also can be used in court, and is updated in near real-time.[1]

Practically speaking, I would think that Google's data is even more susceptible to be found in court and used in that manner than data held and passed on by smaller, relatively unknown apps that lawyers may not even know are installed on locked phones.

You have a good point about there being a larger surface area and more weak points when more than one entity handles data, but I'd also be wary of heavy-handed regulations along that dividing line. I don't think we need to give Google monopoly rights to another big chunk of the ad industry. If a user might prefer an entity other than Google handle certain pieces of their data (maybe they strike a more transparent and rewarding deal than Google), they should have that choice.

[1] https://theintercept.com/2015/11/06/how-law-enforcement-can-...

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