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Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

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Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#61

Post by saalweachter »

specialp wrote: post #43
Despegar wrote: post #2

I mean sure. Google certainly doesn't want wireless carriers to compete with them in advertising, and everyone having access to location data from smartphones just devalues Google's own access. https://qz.com/1131515/google-collects-android-users-locatio...

Google is not only worried about the competition, they are more likely more concerned with potential legislation. There is now bipartisan support for legislation to stop this practice. It could soon be next that there is regulation not allowing sale of this info or advertising based on it. Consumers don't expect to be GPS tracked everywhere and have companies profit on that data. Granting location permission to us he…

I would also like to point out that corporations are made of people, many people, with diverse opinions, beliefs and motivations, and that corporate actions frequently arise from multiple decision-makers within a company.

So we could come up with a hundred explanations for why Google took this action in this thread, some cynical, some conspiratorial, some altruistic and idealistic. And frankly, half of them would probably be sort-of correct, in that one or more of the decision-makers and their advisers might have considered that point or used it as a basis of their decision.

Occasionally you can state cleanly, "Company X did Y because Z", but it's usually more complicated than that. And when it is a case of "Company X did Y because A, B and C and despite I, J, K", you rarely have the information to reason out all of the variables that went into a decision, unless the matter is of such historical importance that you get the 27 books written after the fact based on years of investigation and interviews.

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#62

Post by bduerst »

greglindahl wrote: post #48
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't sell your location data, they sell targeting options for specific geographic locations. These are quite different. I'm okay with seeing an ad targeted at anyone within walking distance of a cafe. I'm not okay with my personal location getting sold to whoever thinks they have a valuable enough use for it.

Location information leaks from ad targeting. Maybe that doesn't bother you, but it might bother other people. One way it leaks is that an advertiser generally knows what ad campaign a user clicked on. So if that ad campaign was only sent to a particular location, you know where the user was when they clicked on the ad.

Knowing the city that someone clicked your ad in because you targeted the ad in that city isn't 'leaking' location data.

These advertiser websites know your city already by the act of you visiting their website.

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#63

Post by guelo »

thefounder wrote: post #59
Ajedi32 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big difference is Google doesn't sell that data to third parties; they just use it for ad targeting. There's a big difference between the company that makes my phone's OS knowing my location, and anyone willing to pay a few bucks knowing the same. (Also it looks like in the situation described in the article you linked, they didn't even use the data for ad targeting: "we never incorporated Cell ID into our networ…

As far as the advertising is concerned Google is no different(and so FB etc). Anyone with few bucks will know your location or better said will target you with ads. With Google they won't target only by location because as you said Google makes the OS so it knows pretty much everything about you.

That's just not true. There's a reason the bounty hunters don't use Google Ads to locate individuals but they do use AT&T.

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#64

Post by pwg »

andybak wrote: post #26
Despegar wrote: post #2

I mean sure. Google certainly doesn't want wireless carriers to compete with them in advertising, and everyone having access to location data from smartphones just devalues Google's own access. https://qz.com/1131515/google-collects-android-users-locatio...

Well, kinda but there's some definite shades of gray here. EDIT - for example I'm not sure the original "Bounty hunters" use case would be facilitated by Google's targeted ads. There's a big gap between "I might be able to target ads at people in a narrow geographical area" and "I can find our where someone lives"

Unfortunately, the data underlying both use cases is the same.

In order to target adds "at people in a narrow geographical area" I need to know when those people are in that "narrow geographical area". I.e., I need to know their location to an accuracy good enough to say they are in that "narrow geographical area" (or in this case, their phones location, which is a good proxy for their location).

Once I can know "the phones location" to a level of accuracy to make "narrow geographical area" targeted ads profitable, all I have to do is average several overnight readings of 'location' together to get a very good estimate of "where someone lives".

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#65

Post by vkou »

thefounder wrote: post #59
Ajedi32 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big difference is Google doesn't sell that data to third parties; they just use it for ad targeting. There's a big difference between the company that makes my phone's OS knowing my location, and anyone willing to pay a few bucks knowing the same. (Also it looks like in the situation described in the article you linked, they didn't even use the data for ad targeting: "we never incorporated Cell ID into our networ…

As far as the advertising is concerned Google is no different(and so FB etc). Anyone with few bucks will know your location or better said will target you with ads. With Google they won't target only by location because as you said Google makes the OS so it knows pretty much everything about you.

Please show me where I can buy thefounder's location data from Google. Which service is that, and how much do I need to pay? I can't find it at https://www.google.com/about/products/

> better said will target you with ads.

The difference between selling location data, and selling ad targeting, is the difference between actively stalking someone, and sending unsolicited spam to "Current resident" at "Every address in a city block".

What harm can I inflict to you, via targeted ads? Some. You can think of some creative ways to do so, but it's not a very effective way to inflict harm.

What harm can I inflict to you, via buying your location data? A hell of a lot.

If you don't trust Google to be a good steward of your data, that's one thing. But let's not conflate selling your data, with selling the ability to mass-advertise to a demographic that includes you.

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#67

Post by protomyth »

dustinmr wrote: post #56
protomyth wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because its hard to believe Google is protecting our privacy instead of protecting its own turf. Google does that, Apple doesn't. The interesting case would be if Microsoft still had a horse in the game. Given Windows 10 you might see the same reaction.

Apple doesn’t do that? You enjoy using iMessages on your android phone and Linux laptop do you? Yeah, yeah, it’s different. Except that it’s the same in the areas in which each competes. There’s plenty of examples of Apple freezing out others from a market.

Apple doesn't sell data to third parties, so Apple doesn't do that.

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#68

Post by mschuster91 »

TACIXAT wrote: post #51
Despegar wrote: post #2

I mean sure. Google certainly doesn't want wireless carriers to compete with them in advertising, and everyone having access to location data from smartphones just devalues Google's own access. https://qz.com/1131515/google-collects-android-users-locatio...

I think there is a difference between allowing ads to target an area and selling someone's real time location. I'm against the collection of data generally because that data can always end up in court, but Google has never given people access to my real time location.

> but Google has never given people access to my real time location.

As long as your Google account remains secured and no one manages to sneak a 2nd Google Account on your phone, that is. Find My Phone is a real time tracker that can be abused e.g. by spouses or stalkers. IIRC only triggering the "audible ring" leaves a trace on the phone (a notification + the obvious sound), to check if someone used FMP for tracking one has to dive deep into the Google Activity Logs.

Only way to protect yourself is, of course, to disable GPS on the phone - but what if you want to use Maps or another navigation at the same time?

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#69

Post by stdgy »

thefounder wrote: post #59
Ajedi32 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big difference is Google doesn't sell that data to third parties; they just use it for ad targeting. There's a big difference between the company that makes my phone's OS knowing my location, and anyone willing to pay a few bucks knowing the same. (Also it looks like in the situation described in the article you linked, they didn't even use the data for ad targeting: "we never incorporated Cell ID into our networ…

As far as the advertising is concerned Google is no different(and so FB etc). Anyone with few bucks will know your location or better said will target you with ads. With Google they won't target only by location because as you said Google makes the OS so it knows pretty much everything about you.

I don't think that's the case at all.

As far as I know, advertisers never receive personal information from Google. Google hordes the personal information and shows advertisements (provided by the advertisers) to their users, using their personal information.

It would be rather contrary to their interests if they were to send their user's data to other parties. They'd lose their commercial leverage and their ad network would become less valuable.

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#70

Post by max76 »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #47
Despegar wrote: post #2

I mean sure. Google certainly doesn't want wireless carriers to compete with them in advertising, and everyone having access to location data from smartphones just devalues Google's own access. https://qz.com/1131515/google-collects-android-users-locatio...

The big difference is Google doesn't sell that data to third parties; they just use it for ad targeting. There's a big difference between the company that makes my phone's OS knowing my location, and anyone willing to pay a few bucks knowing the same. (Also it looks like in the situation described in the article you linked, they didn't even use the data for ad targeting: "we never incorporated Cell ID into our networ…

The difference exists only to the point that Google is an ethical owner of the data. I'm concerned that Google is in the business selling products based on a monopoly of consumer data. These products are likely to become more and more invasive as time goes on.. It's possible that a future Google product will become a larger threat to privacy than geolocation because they have a wider variety of data collected.

In summary, today's Google handles geolocation much better than telecom companies, but the mass of personal data Google collects makes their potential future activity concerning.

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