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Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

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Re: Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

#81

Post by Xuzz »

Anechoic wrote: post #53
martythemaniak wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, you should probably remember that Android came out 2 years ago and managed to overtake the iPhone in that short time frame. I highly doubt Apple will have even a plularity (let alone a majority) of the tablet market in 2 years.

You're presuming that the Android vs iPhone sales figures are indicative of popularity vs the iPhone only being restricted to one network provider (at least in the USA). The iPad doesn't have that restriction. It may very well happen that Android tablets overtake iPads but Android vs iPhones market is an apples-to-oranges comparison.

Apples to robots?

Re: Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

#83

Post by mturmon »

kemiller wrote: post #12

Another factor here is that mobile devices are all a tier or two down from personal computers in terms of the raw number of dollars. Seems like a 15% premium is something people will consider paying if it only amounts to $30, but might not if it's $300. This was especially true in the early days of the PC revolution. The Mac 128K sold for $2495 at the time, which is more than $5000 in today's dollars[1]. I can't find…

The PC, once purchased, sits under your desk.

But the laptop and the phone, you touch and carry with you in public. It's a personal accessory.

People will pay more to have nicely made personal accessories -- for many reasons -- looks, durability, pleasant to use, feels well made, status signaling.

Re: Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

#84

Post by chime »

cletus wrote: post #75
cheald wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having just recently priced laptops, I didn't have this experience. A 13" MBP is $1200 for the bare-bones options (4GB RAM, Core 2 Duo, 250GB 5400 RPM SATA). It weighs about 4.5 lbs. They want an additional $400 for an extra 4GB of RAM (wtf?) A Dell Inspiron 14" with the same specs clocks in at $665 at 4.9 lbs (which is still under the 5lb "ultraportable" mark). A Lenovo U350 with similar specs clocks in at $700 and…

And this, ladies and gentlemen, just proves Gruber's argument that many people buy PCs based on bullet point specs having never seen the enclosure. With MacBook Pros you get: - a backlit keyboard with ambient light sensor; - a high quality display; - significantly better battery life than any Windows lapt I've ever seen (due in part to software admittedly); - the best trackpad I've seen on any laptop ever (seriously.…

> - significantly better battery life than any Windows lapt I've ever seen (due in part to software admittedly);

My 11 month old Acer Timeline gets me 8+ hours of battery life with constant Wifi use. I easily work full days without recharges.

Re: Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

#85

Post by mattmaroon »

napierzaza wrote: post #69
mattmaroon wrote: post #56

First of all, I priced this at work out of curiosity when buying some Mac Pros and some Macbook Pros. You can get a PC with the same hardware specs as a Mac Pro for about half the cost. You can also get a PC with the same specs for about the same cost if you get one of the gamer brands, but just a Dell or HP Quad core machine is far cheaper than a Mac Pro, assuming all things that can be compared on an apples to appl…

Did you just compare the Nook to the iPad? How is that at all comparable to the feature set of the iPad? Go on. You're also somehow assuming that other phones are not subsidized??? This has been going on before the iPhone existed so don't be surprised if the Android is too. So no, what AT&T pays doesn't count. One of the main things I've never heard enough about in comparing Macs and PCs is the service. The ease of s…

From a hardware standpoint the Nook isn't that far off of the iPad. Any differences in feature set are largely due to them running some custom version of Android which probably cost a lot more than running stock. Just slapping Froyo on it would have made the feature set as comparable as you could get.

So in terms of pricing (and probably only pricing) it's a fair comparison. It illustrates that vendors could compete with Apple on pricing if they wanted. I think they're quite wise not to, everyone saw the race to the bottom on PC margins that happened in the late 90s and decided they'd opt out this time around.

You're right about the phones, others are subsidized, though usually with an upfront fee rather than an ongoing. The rumors in the early days were that Apple's monthly fee is much more than most other phones get, and that's why AT&T got them over Verizon, but who knows.

Many PC vendors have service at least as good as Apple's. I've dealt with both HP and Apple, they're pretty comparable. And with HP you never have to hear the term "genius bar".

Re: Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

#86

Post by jwhitlark »

andreyf wrote: post #36
trotsky wrote: post #6

I see daring fireball has never heard of archos. http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/31/archos-unleashes-five-fiv...

A theory: Archos has obviously created prototypes to send to the press, but it doesn't look like they're pulling off mass manufacturing at the advertise prices just yet (except the Archos 5, which has a resistive screen). Could it be that the prices quoted are simply an over-ambitious projection?

The 70 has been shipping for a week. It also sold out on the first day. And it has a capacitive screen.

Interestingly enough, when I ordered mine, I got a $25 discount, for no particular reason I can discern. Brought the total cost to $256, delivered. We'll see how it measures up.

You can install the market easily; my understanding is there isn't the logic in the market (yet?) to handle a wider range of devices, (without 3g, gps, etc.). With android market advertised for google tv advertised for the spring, I'm wondering if they're prepping the market for a much wider range of devices...

Re: Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

#87

Post by cheald »

cletus wrote: post #75
cheald wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having just recently priced laptops, I didn't have this experience. A 13" MBP is $1200 for the bare-bones options (4GB RAM, Core 2 Duo, 250GB 5400 RPM SATA). It weighs about 4.5 lbs. They want an additional $400 for an extra 4GB of RAM (wtf?) A Dell Inspiron 14" with the same specs clocks in at $665 at 4.9 lbs (which is still under the 5lb "ultraportable" mark). A Lenovo U350 with similar specs clocks in at $700 and…

And this, ladies and gentlemen, just proves Gruber's argument that many people buy PCs based on bullet point specs having never seen the enclosure. With MacBook Pros you get: - a backlit keyboard with ambient light sensor; - a high quality display; - significantly better battery life than any Windows lapt I've ever seen (due in part to software admittedly); - the best trackpad I've seen on any laptop ever (seriously.…

I've seen a lot of MBPs. I've used them. They're really nice. I don't dispute that at all.

My Fedora/Win7 laptop has a backlit keyboard, stunning display, and a great industrial design with an aluminum body. The trackpad is dodgy and the battery life isn't as good as an MBP's, but it also has two batteries that are user-swappable. It doesn't run OS X. It also has HDMI out and a Blu-Ray drive, two "premium" features you aren't going to find on the MBP. It cost half of what an MBP would.

Apple sells a premium product, without a doubt, and more than that, they sell a user experience. It's a great one. They make really solid products. You pay a premium cost for that premium product.

The original assertion was that low-end MBPs basically cost what their competing PC counterparts do - and that's just not true.

Re: Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

#88

Post by cletus »

chime wrote: post #84
cletus wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, just proves Gruber's argument that many people buy PCs based on bullet point specs having never seen the enclosure. With MacBook Pros you get: - a backlit keyboard with ambient light sensor; - a high quality display; - significantly better battery life than any Windows lapt I've ever seen (due in part to software admittedly); - the best trackpad I've seen on any laptop ever (seriously.…

> - significantly better battery life than any Windows lapt I've ever seen (due in part to software admittedly); My 11 month old Acer Timeline gets me 8+ hours of battery life with constant Wifi use. I easily work full days without recharges.

Your Acer Timeline also uses a CULV (Ultra Low Voltage) CPU. Apples and oranges.

Find me a Core 2 Duo (non-ULV) or i3/i5/i7 laptop with equivalent battery life.

The Timelines are a good budget laptop and much better than the Atom-based netbooks (imho). Personally I prefer the Asus UL30A (etc) range but that's really nitpicking.

Re: Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

#89

Post by trotsky »

ary wrote: post #67
trotsky wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engadget quoted $300 for the 10" but it seems to have come out a more expensive - The 8gb is on the shelves in singapore for S$499 which is about $390, and the 16gb for S$599. Other commenters should note that these devices are in retail (though they are just arriving). I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy an archos tablet - I'm sure not in the market for one. I just don't get how it doesn't contradict "even putt…

It doesn't contradict "even putting quality aside, competitors can’t match Apple’s prices" because competing on price means offering something that is essentially the same for a lower price. The iPad isn't comparable to either the Archos 7" or 10" tablets.

You're confusing competition with cloning. Look at the products the article lists as iPhone competitors - the galaxy, the desire, the incredible and the nexus one. It would seem like your standard for competition would discard them all.

Re: Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

#90

Post by netcan »

cletus wrote: post #79

I've had this argument far too many times. Specifically regarding the iPad vie put several theories forward regarding the 7" vs 10" tablets: 1. Apple has tied up the world supply of 10" capacitative touch screens. That's not far-fetched; 2. Price: as per Gruber's argument; 3. Fear: no one wants to directly compete with the iPad so they're seeking some form of differentiation. Nikon did this with DSLRs and Canon. It w…

All these might be true, but still be on-the-margin effects.

In the PC world (and I think the old audio player world), any new Apple product was met a competitor with the similar specs (often better) at close to half the price (taking into account sales and such). Like the post concludes, if it was possible to make an android tablet (even a 7" one) that was a direct alternative to the ipad at $350 someone would be

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