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Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

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Re: Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

#71
post #38

I get the disdain for VCs -- it's a specific model with a specific set of failure modes. So that's fair. What I don't understand is this dislike for investing ahead of growth or success. Why is the expectation that everything can be done bootstrapped or constantly profitable? Companies take investment. If you're building a product that will be valuable for a long time, there will always be a period at the beginning w…

Free healthcare, free college, and a UBI would go a long way toward making starting a company realistic for more people.

But yet somehow Europe is a wasteland by comparison to the States for startups. In many, particularly, Northern European countries health care and college is the norm, even if UBI is further off, there are many subsidies and benefits one can have.

It is the desire, hunger, and unmet needs that creates many startups.

Re: Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

#72
post #8

VCs win if enough of their bets make it big enough to offset the ones that go under. Naturally the big hits are few and the ones that fail are numerous. That means the big hits need to be huge and the failures need to have a certain cap. The latter also means you can't run a company for 10 years in slowmo until they get profitable. And the big hits need to be huge which means they need to take over a nice chunk of a…

I think your point about employees is especially true, particularly since the large tech companies pay disproportionately so much more. If you are a senior-level software engineer, even if the startup is successful in the "unicorn" range, for most people that means an equity payout on the couple hundred K to the $1 million range for all but the very largest successes. Not bad at all, but when the FAANGS are already p…

Precisely. A senior engineer can certainly hope to make $400k or more per year for good performance. Not just in FAANG either - plenty of other profitable businesses are competing for the same grade of talent and thus pay in the same range.

Only a handful of almost surefire unicorns can reasonably come anywhere near matching that, and that only in the eventuality that they don't pull a Zenefits and leave you hundreds of thousands of dollars to millions of dollars short and in need of a new job.

Anecdotally, last year I was contacted by such a surefire unicorn for a role that was actually very interesting. We crunched the numbers together, and the best case scenario was them effectively matching my current comp. Which was actually a great proposition for startup comp, the best I've seen. Still, nowhere near compelling enough to upend my life for a higher risk position without any financial upside.

I worked in startups for the early part of my career, including a fairly well known one that exited. Neither me, nor any of my colleagues in that startup, nor any of the many other startup employees in my network, ever made more than a few hundred thousands on our options. Many very talented engineers made nothing at all on large quantities of options granted by several promising startups.

It's no wonder that none of the recent graduates I interview nowadays is at all interested in startups. When I ask where else they are interviewing, it's always FAANG and other high-flying profitable businesses. Even more so for senior engineers, whose opportunity cost is even higher, typically in the hundreds of thousands per year.

Re: Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

#73

Most heavily-VC funded companies die Young, even if they make it to IPO, like SGI (now reconstituted as NVidia). VCs don't care about companies, they want to make a quick buck and get out. Most successful startups are self funded for most of their life, e.g Microsoft, Dell, Google, Amazon.

Microsoft, Google and Amazon took vc. Seems Dell may not have, according to a brief glance at wikipedia

Re: Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

#74

Caveat: I'm a VC, so I definitely have a horse in this race. A few misc comments: - VC is not for every company. Most VCs will be the first to tell you that: if you're not trying to build for a specific type/size of outcome, then VC funding is going to suck for you, and it's going to suck for the VC. It's not at all in a VC's best interest to invest in a company that has no desire to fit the VC model. - I think the V…

I'm not a VC, but your last point is worth emphasizing. It used to be that if you wanted money for your company your options were basically:

- go to your bank for a loan for a little money you have to pay back fairly soon

- go to Sand Hill Road and get investment with the condition that you have to shoot for a huge outcome or die trying

There's a _lot_ more in the middle now, and that's really cool.

Re: Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

#75
post #56

The Babe Ruth effect of VC's needing big hits and the entire industry being a hits-driven business (unicorns, PG's Black Swan Farming, etc.) is a relic of the VC industry being not-long-tail compatible (i.e. offline). This will change, and more money will be made in the fat long tail than the hits. I've been writing at length about this movement ( https://medium.com/swlh/the-new-bootstrappers-how-alternativ... ) and…

Your links don't go anywhere.

Re: Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

#76
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does that mean for founders? It means that you are putting all your eggs into one basket. > What does that mean for startup employees? Well, they got the worst of all worlds. High risk and little to no upside. Their eggs are also in one basket as they work for only one company AND they don't have the huge upsides that VCs and founders have Presumably both of them get paid for their efforts...not entirely worth…

Not worthless but the deal they get is usually a lot worse than the deal a VC gets. Are they getting paid enough to account for the risk? A VC will make more money and have less risk (overall). An employee will most likely make not much more than working for an established company and have a high chance of losing his job within a few years.

Exactly. The idea that Founders take on so much more ”risk” than early employees, and so deserve multiple orders of magnitude more reward is laughable.

There’s no difference in the risk of a founder and employee 1. They’re both out of a job and perhaps underpaid at first.

Re: Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

#77
post #8

VCs win if enough of their bets make it big enough to offset the ones that go under. Naturally the big hits are few and the ones that fail are numerous. That means the big hits need to be huge and the failures need to have a certain cap. The latter also means you can't run a company for 10 years in slowmo until they get profitable. And the big hits need to be huge which means they need to take over a nice chunk of a…

> The whole game favors only VCs and founders who like big bets. But for the vast majority of people (which includes employees), the VC game is not a great game to play.

If you're not the capitalist then you're probably the capital.

Re: Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

#78

Caveat: I'm a VC, so I definitely have a horse in this race. A few misc comments: - VC is not for every company. Most VCs will be the first to tell you that: if you're not trying to build for a specific type/size of outcome, then VC funding is going to suck for you, and it's going to suck for the VC. It's not at all in a VC's best interest to invest in a company that has no desire to fit the VC model. - I think the V…

Great points

Re: Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

#79

Reposting my question : So let's stay I start a startup, grow and manage to take it public, what happens next? Is the company expected to keep growing indefinitely? What happens if growth is stagnant, but the company is profitable? I also hear about the mid-life and late stage of companies. Can you explain what these terms mean and how being in these stages affects the company? Are there any good examples of publicly…

Lots of good questions. Maybe a primer on the relationship between a VC and a founder would be helpful.

Say you are a founder, you've got a killer idea, you think you can change the world with this idea but you need capital to bring it to life. Say you can demonstrate on a small scale that your idea does work, you have analysis that the market will support your idea, but you need money again to make it a reality. VCs come in, say we'll give you a boat load of cash today, in exchange for a hefty portion of your company, based on an evaluation that we're going to make. They usually take a board seat, and will be a part of your company's leadership, but remember the goal of the VC on the board may not always align with what other board members want for the company, VCs are looking to make the company's evaluation value grow so their investment is worth more than they spent, usually for a set amount of time or some sort of liquidation event occurs, be it acquisition, IPO, or shutting it down.

VCs work within a fund, a set amount of capital to invest, and that fund generally has a timeline, say 10 years, for the fund to end and realize any and all profit and losses and close the fund down. Once a company goes public, the VC can choose to do what they want, including completely selling all the shares they can convert into straight cash, or holding onto it, or devise some other strategy to distribute stocks to it's limited parters (the other groups of capital such as pension funds, college endowments, etc. etc.) for them to do what they wish.

Early/Seed, Mid-Stage, Late stage, these are generally terms to describe where a company is, and sometimes can be seen as part of the VC chain, seed / series A, Series B-C, Series D and above if additional rounds of funding are needed.

There are plenty of companies that exist to purely exist and serve their customers, by the time a company goes public, VCs are generally long gone as their funds have run their course. The VC model is a relatively new investment invention compared to industrial companies of the early 1900s in manufacturing let's say.

The pros and cons of a public vs private company can fill an entire textbook. They're just different models of operating, with different legal ramifications, different things you can and cannot do as a public company versus a private company, as well as access to capital which as a public company comes much easier (sell your share to the public) than it can when you have to pitch private investors.

In the broader economy, VCs play a small part, endowments, pension funds, other investment groups, may as part of their investment strategy partner with various VC and PE firms. But there's there's a diversity of firms that operate VC funds, it's not all just in one company (although one could argue Softbank Vision fund is just that), and each VC and PE firm has their own investment philosophy on how they stay successful.

Re: Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your point about employees is especially true, particularly since the large tech companies pay disproportionately so much more. If you are a senior-level software engineer, even if the startup is successful in the "unicorn" range, for most people that means an equity payout on the couple hundred K to the $1 million range for all but the very largest successes. Not bad at all, but when the FAANGS are already p…

This is assuming one can get hired by a FAANG, which is not true for many.

I’m about to join a startup. I just want to do meaningful work and learn new things. I view it as a learning experience. I am so fed up with corporation life. I don’t see a way out other than joining a startup or starting my own. I don’t want to deal with project managers and fill their spreadsheets anymore.

The most valuable thing I have is the remaining time I have in this life. Not the number in my bank account.

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