Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Chariot is shutting down

blog.chariot.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 200 posts

Re: Chariot is shutting down

#191

Post by tixocloud »

jeffbax wrote: post #188
geofft wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the history of transit-disrupting startups in the SF Bay Area can be attributed to how truly bad public transit in the SF Bay Area is. I understood Uber a lot more after trying to hail a taxi in SF. (Same with Boring Company and LA traffic.) A real disruptive solution for humanity - but a hard one to monetize - would be to figure out why cities with good public transit / shared transit infrastructure managed…

Privatize it and stop letting local politics strangle it https://www.econlib.org/no-more-public-mass-transit-infrastr... > In Japan, being in the railway business means being in the real estate business, explained Egon Terplan, SPUR’s regional planning director, at Thursday afternoon’s panel discussion about what the Bay Area can learn from Japanese transit station area development. “They are able to capture the valu…

It's an interesting concept that I am not sure will work in the North American context. You see far greater numbers of conglomerates that own multiple businesses in Asia than in North America/Europe. North American business schools are all about focusing on one business and one industry.

Re: Chariot is shutting down

#192

Post by jeffbax »

save_ferris wrote: post #127
wmab wrote: post #97

It's a shame to say goodbye to something that is quite synonymous with San Francisco life. From the comments a lot of people don't "get it" and then think that this is the reason it failed. I'm sure it's a decision based on the complexities of scaling and working with each city and county to make a truly successful business that they ran into too many problems. Not all businesses need to grow to huge heights to not b…

We're beginning to feel the crunch of car culture in the US, and not everyone is excited at the prospect of footing the bill to overhaul infrastructure and transportation systems at the public level. > In a capitalist country, the markets will reward those who succeed. This may be true, but markets will favor a solution that involves maintaining control of the system in order to generate profit. If we want our transp…

Not true. The best train systems in the world are private businesses. The problem is having to compete with the government. The NYC subway used to be two private systems and the government put them out of business and now it's death by politics

A business focused on transit could otherwise profit and maintain for less cost than government fails to do.

Re: Chariot is shutting down

#193

Post by helper »

mandelbrotwurst wrote: post #72
lhorie wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> visitor accessible, payment system. And more realtime bus information These do exist: purchasing fares via the Muni app is pretty straightforward and services like nextmuni.com and similar apps can tell you when the next bus is coming. Frequency is definitely subpar though. When I first came to SF, I was supposed to meet with a job interviewer for dinner in a place at mission. The subway train took 30 minutes to sh…

Muni data is not at all accurate.

The nextmuni predictions are pretty good for buses that are already running on the route. The predictions break down as soon as it has to estimate when the next driver is going to actually start the route.

Re: Chariot is shutting down

#194

Post by opo »

romwell wrote: post #169
crucini wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard that story plenty of times, but I have my doubts, which increase over time. I think people simply didn't like streetcars once buses were available. I think streetcars were seen as a horrible, dangerous, inconvenient technology with massive infrastructure costs. The first crack in my belief was a comment by a former Baltimore fire chief (I think) who had worked as a streetcar and bus driver earlier. He talk…

>I've heard that story plenty of times, but I have my doubts, It's not a story, it's a goddamn historical fact[1]. >I'm sure there's a grain of truth in there, about lobbying - but was it really the decisive factor? Of course not just lobbying, but also immense loads of corruption and monopoly practices[1]. >Streetcars were a very cool idea but unfortunately motor buses were better in every objective way. Yeah, that'…

The podcast 99% Invisible had a story on "The Great Red Car Conspiracy" which covers this. As with most issues, it looks like it is more complex (and interesting) than first appears.

https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/episode-70-the-great-...

Re: Chariot is shutting down

#195

Post by bernatfp »

idoh wrote: post #5

I used Chariot a bit a couple years ago. Sad to see it go. For people who haven't heard of it, it worked like this: I live in SF, and worked in Redwood City. Every day, there was some type of large van that would pick me up a couple blocks from where I lived and dropped me off a couple blocks from where I worked. So it was like a middle ground between public transportation and Uber / Lyft.

FWIW Citymapper offers a similar service in London. Essentially carpooling with more seats. Admittedly though, they don't cover such long distances.

Re: Chariot is shutting down

#196

Post by subsaharancoder »

mlevental wrote: post #67
dawhizkid wrote: post #43

I recently watched the Anthony Bourdain episode where he goes to Nairobi and rides on a "matatu", which are essentially privately operated party buses for commuters. I thought that was actually a pretty neat idea and could definitely see a market for that. https://explorepartsunknown.com/kenya/matatus-rule-nairobis-...

matatu just means taxi or something like that (it actually comes from 'three' in Swahili because the conductors used to yell "give me three" at potential passengers). they are absolutely no fun to ride since the operators pack them to the brim with people and other cargo (animals too) and they wait until full to take off (so sometimes, for infrequently traveled routes you end up waiting hours). this is all to say not…

technically matatu's are mass transit privately owned minivan buses and not taxis, Nairobi as well as other Kenyan cities are well served by ride sharing services like Uber and Taxify which fill the taxi need. The "tatu" or three came about because they used to charge 3 cents when they started out way back before my time. There have been some changes in the sector to address some issues like safety but it's got a long way to go. Interesting innovations popped up around the space e.g. Google launched NFC transit payments, Bebapay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BebaPay, in Nairobi a couple of years back but killed off the project (I was part of the local team when this took off)

Re: Chariot is shutting down

#197

Post by crucini »

romwell wrote: post #169
crucini wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard that story plenty of times, but I have my doubts, which increase over time. I think people simply didn't like streetcars once buses were available. I think streetcars were seen as a horrible, dangerous, inconvenient technology with massive infrastructure costs. The first crack in my belief was a comment by a former Baltimore fire chief (I think) who had worked as a streetcar and bus driver earlier. He talk…

>I've heard that story plenty of times, but I have my doubts, It's not a story, it's a goddamn historical fact[1]. >I'm sure there's a grain of truth in there, about lobbying - but was it really the decisive factor? Of course not just lobbying, but also immense loads of corruption and monopoly practices[1]. >Streetcars were a very cool idea but unfortunately motor buses were better in every objective way. Yeah, that'…

Let me address the externalities idea first:

> The real reason you don't see streetcars is that the benefits of a public transit system are externalities[2], and so they must be funded by the government.

I don't follow your logic here. Seems like two different issues. First, should transit be subsidized based on positive externalities. Second, which technology will best deliver that transit. Are these issues coupled somehow? I think they are independent.

In the US, we often have government-operated buses that are heavily subsidized. If streetcars were a better option, the transportation authority could use them.Whether subsidized or not, whether public or private, you presumably have a decision maker looking to deliver transit of a certain grade at the lowest cost.

(This page gives a sense of the subsidy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio)

So if all the historical rails and overhead wires were still intact, I'm guessing that today's transit authorities would make the same decision as the transit companies did back in the day, which is switch over to motor buses and either dismantle or neglect the expensive infrastructure.

Of course there would be a few exceptions; very heavily used routes, and places where non-economic reasons would intervene.

Now the wikipedia page you linked presents a much more nuanced view than what you advocated. In fact it contains a lot to support my skepticism, particularly under "Other Factors" and "Counterarguments". For instance:

> "GM Killed the Red cars in Los Angeles".[84] Pacific Electric Railway (which operated the 'red cars') was hemorrhaging routes as traffic congestion worsened with growing car ownership levels after the end of World War II.[88]

And most tellingly:

> GM's alleged conspiracy extended to only about 10% of American transit systems

So the other 90% shut down the street car lines without any arm twisting from GM. Sounds like all system operators saw the same economic picture.

I'm not wedded to my theory (change driven by evolving technology) but I'm even more skeptical of your theory (change driven by conspiracy). ~

Re: Chariot is shutting down

#198

Post by dmode »

atombender wrote: post #138
dmode wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are looking for San Francisco

Isn't SF/Bay Area notorious for its terrible traffic? My impression is that while it's easier, distance-wise, to get out of SF into nature than NYC, it's in a similar spot in terms of rush-hour traffic.

There is a ton of incredible nature within SF itself. Like Presidio and Crissy Field and whole Golden Gate recreational area and Ocean beach

Re: Chariot is shutting down

#199

Post by beavisthegenius »

idoh wrote: post #5

I used Chariot a bit a couple years ago. Sad to see it go. For people who haven't heard of it, it worked like this: I live in SF, and worked in Redwood City. Every day, there was some type of large van that would pick me up a couple blocks from where I lived and dropped me off a couple blocks from where I worked. So it was like a middle ground between public transportation and Uber / Lyft.

I tried to schedule Chariot last year to Foster City from SF. They said they don't do FC. Sucks for them.

Re: Chariot is shutting down

#200

Post by elektor »

gnicholas wrote: post #119
elektor wrote: post #108

For the people that used this and are upset about Chariot shutting down, you should give Waze Carpool a try.

Can you share some experience on how you’ve used Waze Carpool, or how the economics work? I’ve wondered about it but not tried it out.

It's essentially a simplified Uber/Lyft app where I put in my home/work address and a window of time when I make my commute. Afterwards, I see a list of people who are on my route. Then, I can offer someone a ride or request a ride.

Right now Google is subsidizing rides so I think it's $2 a trip. Otherwise it's less than a dollar a mile, whatever the IRS sets the gas write-off as.

Post reply on HN