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NetHack beaten in 7 minutes 15 seconds real time

pellsson.github.io

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Re: NetHack beaten in 7 minutes 15 seconds real time

#41

Post by lagadu »

schoen wrote: post #2

When I saw the previous submission of this as https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18853508 (which describes it as a "tool-assisted speedrun" of NetHack on the online server nethack.alt.org), I thought "wait, you can't have a tool-assisted speedrun of a nondeterministic game with hidden information...!" (particularly on an online server where you can't roll back history). Then I read the article and saw that this pro…

Games done quick marathon is going on right now[0]; for some of the games they do some pretty extreme RNG or memory manipulation (particularly on older NES and SNES games) that is very interesting to watch. It's worth checking it out.

[0] gamesdonequick.com

Re: NetHack beaten in 7 minutes 15 seconds real time

#42

Post by avian »

pimeys wrote: post #26
haolez wrote: post #3

NetHack can be very fun, if you invest some time. I recommend to start with a GUI version.

I played my first NetHack games about 20 years ago and started with the GUI versions, but the game really hooked me when I tried it with the ASCII graphics. They are quite good and if you put a bit of time to it, you should be able to ascend in a couple of months. Aye, good times...

I started with Hack on DOS and later graphic versions of NetHack also never appealed to me. The biggest drawback was recognizing all the different monsters. With ASCII it's quite clear what letters you must fear the most. I played for years and never ascended though.

Re: NetHack beaten in 7 minutes 15 seconds real time

#43

Post by simias »

kibwen wrote: post #16
haolez wrote: post #3

NetHack can be very fun, if you invest some time. I recommend to start with a GUI version.

Alternatively, for a roguelike cut from the same mold as Nethack but with a very different philosophical bent, I recommend Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, which can be played either locally, online in the classic SSH fashion, or via a web browser with a nice graphical UI (e.g. http://crawl.akrasiac.org:8080/#lobby , click on any name there to observe other players in action).

I agree wholeheartedly. Nethack is fun but gameplay-wise it's a bit of a mess, many of the mechanics are extremely obtuse if you don't spoil yourself. And when you start spoiling you never know when to stop.

On the other hand DCSS's game design is pretty stellar in my experience. It's better balanced than Nethack and relies less on arcane knowledge to get through the game. I've always ended up being frustrated while playing Nethack blindly because it feels unfair, meanwhile when I started reading spoilers I felt like I was cheating. DCSS handles that a lot better I think.

Re: NetHack beaten in 7 minutes 15 seconds real time

#44

Post by skibz »

fzeroracer wrote: post #25

RNG manipulations are among some of my favorite speedruns just because of the absurd lengths players will go to align absolutely everything perfectly. For example, Dragon Warrior at AGDQ last year was an absolute treat to watch [1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgh30BiWG58

Remarkable. So is this player performing all of these movements that change the RNG behaviour from (muscle) memory?

Re: NetHack beaten in 7 minutes 15 seconds real time

#45

Post by XCabbage »

Huh. Given that the first 6 minutes (out of 7:15 total) were spent with a HUMAN player fumbling around looking for a fountain, presumably writing an AI capable of doing that step would get the ascension time down to just over a minute. I wonder why they didn't do so?

Re: NetHack beaten in 7 minutes 15 seconds real time

#47

Post by mbel »

XCabbage wrote: post #46

Something else that's not obvious to me: why does the fountain have to be next to a wall?

From the post:

> The fountain is required for wishes. The wall is required to be able to offset the random state without advancing the game state – every time the character attempts to walk into a wall, it calls random() without wasting any in-game time. From the fountain, the bot ascends completely on her own.

Re: NetHack beaten in 7 minutes 15 seconds real time

#48

Post by Jolter »

XCabbage wrote: post #46

Something else that's not obvious to me: why does the fountain have to be next to a wall?

They describe that in the article. To be able to bump into the wall and advance the RNG one step at a time without passing in-game time. Presumably that's to ensure that the next Wish will be successful.

Re: NetHack beaten in 7 minutes 15 seconds real time

#49

Post by XCabbage »

Jolter wrote: post #48
XCabbage wrote: post #46

Something else that's not obvious to me: why does the fountain have to be next to a wall?

They describe that in the article. To be able to bump into the wall and advance the RNG one step at a time without passing in-game time. Presumably that's to ensure that the next Wish will be successful.

D'oh. Not sure how I missed/forgot that. Thanks.

Re: NetHack beaten in 7 minutes 15 seconds real time

#50

Post by fb03 »

MaupitiBlue wrote: post #6

I’ve been trying to reach the amulet for 30 years.

Keep going, bro. It took me 12 years.

I try to explain my friends how fiendishly hard NetHack is but they always say stuff like 'Well I've won in Dark Souls so I know about hard games'. It's not even in the same league imho.

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