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Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

bbc.com

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Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#141

Post by llampx »

lb1lf wrote: post #86
Traster wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they? Because quite simply it doesn't seem like the evidence backs that up - let alone the brutally obvious fact that if you stand next to a speed camera you'll notice all the cars just slow down for the camera. If what you meant to say was 'Speed Cameras make the 30m of road that they're focused on mildly safer than it was before whilst mildly increasing the likelihood of accidents due to unexpected braking in th…

The trick here is to use a pair of speed cameras for measuring average speed over a stretch of road. Everybody and their dog knows just where the three local speed cameras are, and drive accordingly (sigh). The average measurement in the subsea tunnel we drive to get off the island? Hard to beat, unless you want to go for less enlightened tactics like driving like a bat out of hell until you approach the next speed c…

Highways are exactly where a little higher speed makes the least difference in safety. I'd rather that drivers match each others' speed than have congestion enforced by cameras.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#142

Post by llampx »

gadders wrote: post #98
xxs wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden and Finland have fines based on the annual income.[0] [0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-31709454

Imagine if they caught Jeff Bezos. They could probably fund their entire police force for several years. https://www.businessinsider.com/what-amazon-ceo-jeff-bezos-m...

This is why you get a chauffeur.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#143

Post by Xylakant »

chrisper wrote: post #133
Xylakant wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a truly simple trick that makes you invisible for the attempt to use them as money machine. It's incredibly simple. Do not exceed the speed limit. I tried it. It works!

Your view is so naive that I won't even try to argue against it. Your argument only works if cameras weren't set up as traps. Tricky speed cameras make people drive like robots. Some people even drive 20 below the speed limit "just because there could be a camera lurking." This problem isn't easily solved by "just sticking to the speed limit" because many cameras are set up such that they catch you when it isn't natu…

No, my argument even works if the cameras are set up as traps. The speed limit at any stretch of the road is well known. It's visibly posted at the sides if it deviates from the expected.

You're are arguing in favor of "everybody exceeds the speed limit, so we shouldn't punish it." I'm arguing in favor of "everyone should drive at the speed limit." Have you tried lately to drive 30 in a posted 30kmh zone? 50kmh in a city center? You'll be regarded as a traffic obstacle. And that's the problem.

> when it isn't natural to drive at exact speed limit (For example shortly before a town ends, or driving up a steep hill etc.).

Why isn't it "natural" to drive at the posted speed limit until you're at the end of the down? How many seconds do you gain? Is it "natural" to not be able to keep your impulse to put the pedal to the metal in check? The sign "this is the end of the town" exactly signifies that border. People not observing that might be exactly the reason why there's a speed trap - not making money, enforcing the rule.

Why is it "natural" to not observe the speed limit going up a steep hill? Especially on a steep hill it's hard to see what's happening behind the crest.

Are you arguing with "nature" or just "I don't see the use of that rule, so it doesn't apply to me"?

Is that your nature? If so, I'd prefer if you gave up driving.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#144

Post by Aaargh20318 »

adrianN wrote: post #124
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those are also the places where you find those little crosses and similar markers at the side. Usually next to a tree. I would prefer them to be used to prevent kids from being killed rather than to prevent some idiot from auto-darwinating himself.

They're not fantastically expensive devices. We can have enough of them to protect children and idiots.

They are €43.000 s piece, not exactly cheap.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#145

Post by NeedMoreTea »

DanBC wrote: post #138
adav wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And my god, the people who will go FAR over the limit right down your street where people are pushing prams, kids are walking along, etc. is astounding. 100%. However, the majority of cameras are placed on deserted countryside main roads and non-pedestrianised motorways/interstate type roads. More camera locations should be prioritised for protecting pedestrians.

In the UK cameras can only be placed in accident hot spots. They're still very unpopular.

Teen drives his hot hatch with 3 friends as passengers into lamp post by showing off his high speed handbrake turns.

Accident figures peak.

Council installs "safety" camera and lowers speed limit.

Next year figures revert to mean. Council: "Aha! The lower limit and camera has cut accidents, we'll make it permanent".

Net result: speed camera in middle of nowhere, on a dual carriageway, in isolated section of 40mph limit. Often on a bend.

Goodbye 85th percentile rule in yet another spot. I can see why that's unpopular. Yet the spots that really should have cameras near schools, or in other spots around town, generally don't.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#147

Post by coldtea »

cm2187 wrote: post #107
coldtea wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Welcome to civil non-compliance 2.0: vandalism as a form of protest. So now taxes perceived as unjust warrant the destruction of state property in retaliation. A proud history of civil non-compliance, from the French Revolution, 1848, and the Commune to May 68, is what made France what it is, and helped usher us into the modern freedoms and rights.

I don't think many french are proud of the commune, outside of the far left. Even the 1789 French revolution was a bloodshed that resulted into a even tougher dictatorship (the First Empire)...

The left has a sizable percentage of the people's minds in France -- even if they belong in non nominally leftist parties.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#148

Post by coldtea »

seszett wrote: post #130
coldtea wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (including the speedcams themselves). So they fines are a feedback-style job security enabler for the people at the department responsible for the speedcams.

Or you can see them as security measures that only cost money to those who break the rules, meaning they are essentially free to law-abiding citizens.

You missed the part that the rules are BS, and the lights rigged to produce fines -- and in some cases even causing accidents rather than prevent them?

There have been lots of scandals over the years and I even gave some links...

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#149

Post by jasonkester »

It's worth noting that French speed cameras may work a bit differently to what Americans expect. They're a revenue generation mechanism over here, not a safety measure.

Imagine you're driving down a divided motorway at freeway speed, when for no evident reason there's a single 90kph speed sign visible for a couple seconds behind a bridge. That's the signal that 100 yards further on there will be a hidden speed camera. Then the speed limit will go back up to 130kph immediately afterwards.

So when you move to a new area you find out about these things when a series of fines arrive in the mail. Often for being recorded going 91kph in that 90 zone.

It's maddening as a safe driver, having to keep constantly alert and ready to slam on the brakes going down any unfamiliar piece of road.

I'm not overly saddened to hear there are fewer of those things around for a while.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#150

Post by jasonkester »

DanBC wrote: post #138
adav wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And my god, the people who will go FAR over the limit right down your street where people are pushing prams, kids are walking along, etc. is astounding. 100%. However, the majority of cameras are placed on deserted countryside main roads and non-pedestrianised motorways/interstate type roads. More camera locations should be prioritised for protecting pedestrians.

In the UK cameras can only be placed in accident hot spots. They're still very unpopular.

Is that new? Here's my experience of how and where they're placed:

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.65301,-2.0079976,12.25z

That's the M6 toll, a road the folks who control such things would like you to pay them money to drive on. Note that it runs beside the perfectly straight 4 lane A5, which predated it, and, simultaneous to the toll road opening had its speed limit reduced to like 30 miles an hour and speed cameras installed every 200 yards along the entire length.

Hard to imagine the whole thing became that much of an accident hot spot right at that moment.

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