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Lies We Tell Kids

paulgraham.com

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Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#151

Post by jcl »

scott_s wrote: post #43

Protecting kids might be one of the reasons that people move to suburbia, but it's not the only reason. People like living in large houses and having land. That's exorbitantly expensive in the city for middle class families. I also grew up in the suburbs, and I experienced the boredom pg talked about. There was nothing for me and my friends to do . I remember thinking that living in an urban environment would be unth…

I think you may be overestimating the importance of geographic locale. Are suburban teenagers really less bored than urban teenagers? Or, for that matter, more engaged than rural teenagers? It's possible that some teenagers are just naturally bored, and that even in environment with plenty of activities, familiarity will eliminate enough that there is effectively nothing to do.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#152

Post by yters »

Alex3917 wrote: post #113
danohuiginn wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To move forward you have to, by definition, be going in the same direction. The freakish geniuses change the human race, but it's the loyal hard-workers who move it forward. [sorry to quibble over semantics, but it was too obvious an opportunity to pass p]

"To move forward you have to, by definition, be going in the same direction." The idea that progress has directionality is just a metaphor to aid visualization. It has no basis in reality. Your argument is a logical fallacy; I forget the name, but it involves using the same word in two different senses.

equivocation

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#153

Post by mechanical_fish »

greendestiny wrote: post #66
astine wrote: post #22

Does it count as a 'lie' if it is believed by the parent? The reason that parents don't want kids to swear is because they genuinely believe that it is wrong for some reason. The don't know the reason themselves, and so break the rule and become hypocrites, but they still believe that it is wrong and want their children to do better than they did. With regard to group identity (and religion,) most parents actually ad…

I don't know that I've ever read a really good account of the hows and whys of swearing. It seems to me the idea that we're mistaken that swear words are taboo completely misses the fact that we defined these words as taboo to start with. I think restricting children from swearing is in part to give more power to swear words, because as adults we find it useful to have these powerful words. Teaching children that swe…

This is basically right. The words are taboo because it's useful to have taboo words, so the culture deliberately makes them so.

Taboo words are useful because they transcend politeness. If a normally civil person comes into your dinner party and tells you that the fucking ceiling is about to fall down, you get moving. You don't waste time looking around for the ironic smile. You don't reproach the person for speaking out of turn.

But it goes beyond simple cultural coding. The neurologists say that there's a physiological basis for swearing: the brain is wired to do so under certain conditions. Under extreme or sudden distress, swearing helps us cope, and the reverse is probably also true: swearing helps to work you into a rage or a panic. That's one very good reason why we tell kids not to swear and correct them when they do: It's a way of calming them down, and of teaching them to be calm, and of encouraging them to reserve their moments of adrenaline-surging fury for appropriate times.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#154

Post by yters »

pchristensen wrote: post #118
sanj wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a followup, it'd be interesting to know if any of the reviewers have raised kids.

I have a one month old and a 2.5yr old. Even before reading this, I've caught myself telling lies (or hiding truths) with my older kid. We were watching a show about baboons on Animal Planet and the dominant male baboon killed and ate a baby impala (more graphically than I expected them to show). I was going to change the channel, but I asked myself "Why is it bad if my kid knows that some animals eat other animals?"…

I think it is a sort of lie to tell someone the truth in a context they can't handle appropriately. So, I don't see anything wrong with what you are doing. It'd be wrong if you never stopped telling her such things.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#155

Post by yawn »

" But why do we conceal death from kids? Probably because small children are particularly horrified by it."

One of the hardest things for me answer was the question "Dad, am I going to die?". Even though it is incredibly hard to tell them the truth, I do. The aftermath of saying "yes" to that one really, really sucks no matter how you try to handle it.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#156

Post by tptacek »

pchristensen wrote: post #128
dgabriel wrote: post #4

My least favorite pg essay. It's too easy to generalize about parenting, and so little of this essay applies to me. 1. Raising a kid in the city, and quite happily. 2. No prohibitions on swears in my house. Just at Grandma's, and only because it would offend her, not because swearing is inherently bad. 3. He goes to a school where they only teach you how to read, write, and do basic math. Everything else is a child-l…

A couple questions regarding your points: 1) which city, and how urban? I keep trying to convince my wife that the city (Chicago in my case) is ok and I'm gathering data 3) that sounds like a great school - public or private? name? I'd love to find a school like that.

I grew up in Chicago and raise 2 kids in Oak Park, which is to Chicago what Brooklyn is to Manhattan. Speaking of Brooklyn, one of my two business partners is going to be raising a kid there as well.

The problem with big cities and children is school systems; you can get around that by paying for explicit private schools, or the de facto private school systems you get in the near suburbs.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#157

Post by Xichekolas »

sanj wrote: post #119
llimllib wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

negative, ghostrider. Suggesting that a male obgyn may have a different and valuable perspective from a female obgyn is not the same as suggesting that all OBGYNs should be men. To be explicit, I don't claim that all articles about parenthood should be written by non-parents, just that there's a particular type of value in ones that are, since they may more successfully divorce themselves from the visceral feelings o…

You're right. So the question then becomes: "Does a male obgyn may have a different and valuable perspective from a female obgyn?"

How subjective is gynecology? How much room is there for 'perspective'?

I think the metaphor has been taken too far to be useful here.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#158

Post by mechanical_fish »

asnyder wrote: post #140
meredydd wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed - Curie was most definitely "the shit", and that shouldn't be taken away from her. However , it is also almost certainly true that she was taught because she was female. Now, I'm not entirely sure that's a bad thing. I would, in fact, suggest an addition to PG's categories of lies: "Making kids think things are easier than they are". No-one knows better than PG, living in the start-up world, that Big Things ar…

"However, it is also almost certainly true that she was taught because she was female" This is actually not the case. In fact, she was repeatedly denied entry into universities and had to fight especially hard for any education or appointments that she recieved.

At first, I also misread this sentence in the way that you have. :)

What the sentence means to say is "It is also almost certainly true that students were taught about Curie because she was female."

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#159

Post by allenbrunson »

pg quotes Peter Mayle, writing about divorce: "You shouldn't put the blame on one parent, because divorce is never only one person's fault."

to that pg replies: "Really? When a man runs off with his secretary, is it always partly his wife's fault?"

my answer to that would be: yes, even in that case, the guy's wife has to take part of the blame. she married him in the first place. if she was observant, she would have seen the signs. and she could probably tell he was restless or unfulfilled somehow, but chose to ignore it.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#160

Post by scott_s »

nonrecursive wrote: post #101
greendestiny wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that I've ever read a really good account of the hows and whys of swearing. It seems to me the idea that we're mistaken that swear words are taboo completely misses the fact that we defined these words as taboo to start with. I think restricting children from swearing is in part to give more power to swear words, because as adults we find it useful to have these powerful words. Teaching children that swe…

check out Steven Pinker's "Why We Curse", http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=246c0071-a9cd-46e2...

Aside from good analysis, the beginning is full of humorous gems. I'm not sure if the humor is accidental, or if the author picked humorous examples deliberately.
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