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Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

bbc.com

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Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#111

Post by PunchTornado »

arkh wrote: post #39
Bayart wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not located at areas where lower speeds would improve safety, they're located at areas where they make the most money. At least that's how people feel. I'm personally generally dubious on speed limit based policies.

The Montpellier area : 2x3 ways limited to 110km/h + 2x3 ways limited to 90 km/h. Road in perfect state. So let's put an average speed radar system.

are you a road engineer? a safety specialist? have access to the stats of the area? know that ppl didn't complain for noise?

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#112

Post by lb1lf »

Steer wrote: post #41
tbassetto wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, most of Scandinavia determines speeding fines based on income.

Finland does. Sweden and Denmark do not. Norway I don't know, but suspect not. Source: I live in Sweden and recently got caught by a speed camera in Denmark.

Norway does not, either. We do issue fines for drunk driving based on your income, though.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#113

Post by Xylakant »

gadders wrote: post #98
xxs wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden and Finland have fines based on the annual income.[0] [0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-31709454

Imagine if they caught Jeff Bezos. They could probably fund their entire police force for several years. https://www.businessinsider.com/what-amazon-ceo-jeff-bezos-m...

The nokia boss had to pay 116 000 EUR in 2002 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1759791.stm

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#114

Post by jaziek »

ammojamo wrote: post #105
CalRobert wrote: post #26

I used to dislike speed cameras. I thought they were part of an encroaching surveillance state and took judgment away from officers. Then (and sorry, I know it's a tired thing to say) I had a kid. And my god, the people who will go FAR over the limit right down your street where people are pushing prams, kids are walking along, etc. is astounding. It's enough to make you hate all drivers, though a moment of reflectio…

> We need car control every bit as much as gun control, and speed cameras are a big part of that. People die when drivers are left unchecked. Disproportionately, it's people not inside cars. I agree completely. To be honest, from a safety perspective, I would be happy if speed cameras were integrated with street lighting so that basically every stretch of road was covered by speed cameras. That said, I think that pen…

Is that not the way it works in the states?

That's how it is in England.

3 points for a speeding offence. 12 points and you lose your license for 6 months. Points take 3 years to disappear from your license. You also get fined up to 75% of your weekly income, based on how much over the limit you were going, and there are some hard limits (100 mph?) which result in an instant loss of license. It seems sensible.

I agree that financial penalty does disproportianately affect the poor, but at least scaling it with income means the rich cannot completely ignore it either, as they could with a static fine.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#115

Post by TomK32 »

adav wrote: post #75
CalRobert wrote: post #26

I used to dislike speed cameras. I thought they were part of an encroaching surveillance state and took judgment away from officers. Then (and sorry, I know it's a tired thing to say) I had a kid. And my god, the people who will go FAR over the limit right down your street where people are pushing prams, kids are walking along, etc. is astounding. It's enough to make you hate all drivers, though a moment of reflectio…

> And my god, the people who will go FAR over the limit right down your street where people are pushing prams, kids are walking along, etc. is astounding. 100%. However, the majority of cameras are placed on deserted countryside main roads and non-pedestrianised motorways/interstate type roads. More camera locations should be prioritised for protecting pedestrians.

Those cameras are not to protect pedestrians, they exist to enforce drivers to stick to the speed limit.

Look at these charts. Speeding rural areas kill! Also, take a guess at what time SUVs became popular in urban areas. https://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/roadway-and-environment/f...

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#116

Post by TomK32 »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #82
TomK32 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are also the places where you find those little crosses and similar markers at the side. The deadliest stretches of road are the most remote ones which are mistaken for race tracks...

> Those are also the places where you find those little crosses and similar markers at the side. Usually next to a tree. I would prefer them to be used to prevent kids from being killed rather than to prevent some idiot from auto-darwinating himself.

Sticking to the speed limit or asking the tree to move aside, what's easier?

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#117

Post by Reelin »

suvelx wrote: post #73
rikkus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They used to be positioned like this in the UK but all the ones I’ve seen like this have been removed or moved over the years to places where they could be regarded as more for safety than easy money making.

This was intentional, the chief of police wanted to stop them being used as revenue generation, and actually used as a safety device. As such, they're now bright yellow.

As someone who hates speed cameras, I would actually like them if they were more like what you've described.

* Clearly marked, by law.

* Placed for safety, with some clearly defined legal criteria.

* No data retention, by law.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#118

Post by Balero »

adav wrote: post #75
CalRobert wrote: post #26

I used to dislike speed cameras. I thought they were part of an encroaching surveillance state and took judgment away from officers. Then (and sorry, I know it's a tired thing to say) I had a kid. And my god, the people who will go FAR over the limit right down your street where people are pushing prams, kids are walking along, etc. is astounding. It's enough to make you hate all drivers, though a moment of reflectio…

> And my god, the people who will go FAR over the limit right down your street where people are pushing prams, kids are walking along, etc. is astounding. 100%. However, the majority of cameras are placed on deserted countryside main roads and non-pedestrianised motorways/interstate type roads. More camera locations should be prioritised for protecting pedestrians.

I have lived in a rural area that has one of these speed cameras. It's just before a surprisingly sharp turn. People do walk on this road, not many (there is no pavement/sidewalk, just grass).

The hole in the hedge from the cars going through it has almost grown in!

My personal pet idea for pedestrian areas, especially in suburbs, would be to close off one entrance to a road, making them a dead end, stopping them from being short cuts. Not much difference to the people living there, they can still park and access. But now there will be no through traffic.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#119

Post by toolslive »

seszett wrote: post #102
toolslive wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are places here in Belgium where everybody is officially 'speeding' (so driving more than 10km/h faster than what's allowed) and where even the police admits the speed limit was set too low. Guess where they put the hidden mobile cameras. If they were really really interested in making the roads safer for everyone, they would combine driving on the right with the right of way for people coming from the left iso…

Everyone is speeding everywhere in Belgium. We also get a lot more casualties (by inhabitant, by vehicle, by kilometer, any metric you take) than France. France has about 30% less deaths than Belgium, and gives right of way to people coming from the right. The road rules are almost exactly the same between the two countries. If anything, I think it just shows that speed limits are not enforced well enough (and I thin…

mind there's a significant difference between Wallonia and Flanders. (see article below, in Dutch)

https://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/aantal-verkeersdoden-daal...

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#120

Post by dijit »

seren wrote: post #63
dijit wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically not true. There are accidents caused by those who slow unexpectedly because they only just realised there's a speed-trap. It adds an element of unpredictability to the road. This almost completely offsets any positive safety gain. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3861844/ Which makes me think it's a cash-grab.

I have looked at the study you linked, I don't find it very convincing because it is only counting the number of incidents (or MVC), but not the seriousness of the resulting collision. I would assume that if speed cameras decrease the average speed (which might or might not be true!), even if you have the same number of incidents, you should see a reduction in the seriousness of injuries.

I think that's fair, but if it had been on a nation scale you would have debunked it by saying that it was too broad and would be impossible to control all variables, or that it didn't take into account how $your_country does it.

There are other studies which cite this one and they're linked from the page I posted, I invite you to read them. The data is at best inconclusive that speed-traps are functional at preventing collisions and deaths.

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