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Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

bbc.com

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Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#91

Post by yzb »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #71
TomK32 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a cyclist I use as much space of the road as I can just to make sure cars behind me have to use the other lane to overtake or slow down and wait for a good moment. I can't wait for laws to enforce speed limits via tech in modern cars.

> As a cyclist I use as much space of the road as I can just to make sure cars behind me have to use the other lane What are you doing on the road if you're on a bike ? What do you think bicycle lanes are for ?

I think roads are not a place for cyclists to be. For the security of everybody only motorised vehicles should be able to use them if they have no bicycle lane.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#92

Post by seszett »

Traster wrote: post #55
eastendguy wrote: post #14

Why the hate for speed cameras? I love speed cameras because they make the roads safer for everyone. (And yes, once in a while I get a ticket as well, which is always a good reminder to drive safely.)

Do they? Because quite simply it doesn't seem like the evidence backs that up - let alone the brutally obvious fact that if you stand next to a speed camera you'll notice all the cars just slow down for the camera. If what you meant to say was 'Speed Cameras make the 30m of road that they're focused on mildly safer than it was before whilst mildly increasing the likelihood of accidents due to unexpected braking in th…

> Do they? Because quite simply it doesn't seem like the evidence backs that up

French stats show a large drop in road casualties linked to the installation of the first fixed speedcams (2002-2003) although actually, it started dropping when it was announced that fixed speedcams were going to be installed: http://s1.lprs1.fr/images/2014/01/20/3512371_ide-tues-routes...

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#93

Post by julsimon »

People hate them because it's yet another tax. 1 billion+ euros in 2018: https://www.lerevenu.com/breves/les-radars-automatiques-devr...

If you drive around in France, you quickly realise most of them are installed in profitable areas, not in dangerous areas.

Looking forward to 100% of them being destroyed.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#94

Post by jon-wood »

dijit wrote: post #38
eastendguy wrote: post #14

Why the hate for speed cameras? I love speed cameras because they make the roads safer for everyone. (And yes, once in a while I get a ticket as well, which is always a good reminder to drive safely.)

Technically not true. There are accidents caused by those who slow unexpectedly because they only just realised there's a speed-trap. It adds an element of unpredictability to the road. This almost completely offsets any positive safety gain. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3861844/ Which makes me think it's a cash-grab.

People slowing because there's a speed camera are the problem, not the camera itself. If they were driving at the stated speed in the first place there'd be no need to suddenly slam the brakes on to avoid a ticket.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#95

Post by Hoasi »

johnnyfaehell wrote: post #83
Hoasi wrote: post #50

Welcome to civil non-compliance 2.0: vandalism as a form of protest. So now taxes perceived as unjust warrant the destruction of state property in retaliation. The French government has already stepped back before. But it never seems enough for protesters. It does look like a much bigger movement than the state had anticipated. If enough people stop paying taxes this will get serious.

> If enough people stop paying taxes this will get serious. Isn't most of the income tax taken directly from the employer. So only a few people will be able to avoid that. Then there is the lovely VAT tax, how are people going to avoid that one? In fact, I think the majority of taxes are transparent so you know you paid it but you don't really ever feel the pain of handing over the money.

> Isn't most of the income tax taken directly from the employer. So only a few people will be able to avoid that. Then there is the lovely VAT tax, how are people going to avoid that one?

That's right. The French government probably feels lucky. Hence frustrated people resort to destroying things. And taxpayers will pay for the damages anyway. But still, you can see the pressure is real.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#96

Post by lb1lf »

toolslive wrote: post #47
eastendguy wrote: post #14

Why the hate for speed cameras? I love speed cameras because they make the roads safer for everyone. (And yes, once in a while I get a ticket as well, which is always a good reminder to drive safely.)

Some of these cameras are hidden: positioned so that you cannot spot them from afar (and not advertised by a sign neither). If the sole purpose would be to help people to drive safely then you should advertise them, make them really visible aso.

-Here in Norway, every speed camera needs to be advertised by signs in order to let the driver know he's being monitored. Kind of defeats their purpose, as the idea is not to ensure people drive past the cam under the posted limit; it is to make sure they obey the posted limit, period.

Speed cams would be most effective if they were hidden all over the place. (Or used to record average speed over some distance, which is a most effective way of ensuring people observe the speed limit!)

The latter, though, will get the privacy nut in me annoyed unless the authorities flush the record of you passing immediately after verifying that you drove at or under the speed limit. Speed cameras are excellent surveillance devices, after all.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#97

Post by fwn »

chrisper wrote: post #35
eastendguy wrote: post #14

Why the hate for speed cameras? I love speed cameras because they make the roads safer for everyone. (And yes, once in a while I get a ticket as well, which is always a good reminder to drive safely.)

They would make the roads safer if they weren't used so often as money machines. Do they stand at schools? Nope. They stand at the bottom of the hill at the exit of a town.

Known and well-signposted speed camera on dangerous turns, close to schools or kindergartens would vastly improve street safety.

Unfortunately most German(!) street cameras are placed to surprise the driver, causing nearly continuous disruption even for those who don't speed. Their destabilizing effect on traffic can be observed quite easily as people suddenly brake, make light signs to warn others, surprisingly change lanes (because of the sudden speed reduction), etc.

This is because in Germany the money goes to the local authorities.

It doesn't help that placing and maintaining them is pretty expensive (and often outsourced with profit-sharing). Local authorities and private partners have little incentive to reduce their income per device just to increase road safety.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#98

Post by gadders »

xxs wrote: post #17
D_Guidi wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the poor simply can respect the rules like the rich, right?

Sweden and Finland have fines based on the annual income.[0] [0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-31709454

Imagine if they caught Jeff Bezos. They could probably fund their entire police force for several years.

https://www.businessinsider.com/what-amazon-ceo-jeff-bezos-m...

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#99

Post by TomK32 »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #71
TomK32 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a cyclist I use as much space of the road as I can just to make sure cars behind me have to use the other lane to overtake or slow down and wait for a good moment. I can't wait for laws to enforce speed limits via tech in modern cars.

> As a cyclist I use as much space of the road as I can just to make sure cars behind me have to use the other lane What are you doing on the road if you're on a bike ? What do you think bicycle lanes are for ?

I use the bicyle lane when there is one. But in the city with cars parked on the road side I simply have to keep 1 meter distance to the side to avoid dooring (google it!) and that puts me into into the middle of the lane. Which in turn means that cars behind me have to use the oncoming lane to overtake me. If I were cycling more to the side the cars behind me a) wouldn't slow down b) overtake me with little to no space around me and thus endanger me in all those unexpected siutations on the road. Also, who said those roads are just for cars? Roads have been around since roman times, unlike cars.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#100

Post by TomK32 »

yzb wrote: post #91
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a cyclist I use as much space of the road as I can just to make sure cars behind me have to use the other lane What are you doing on the road if you're on a bike ? What do you think bicycle lanes are for ?

I think roads are not a place for cyclists to be. For the security of everybody only motorised vehicles should be able to use them if they have no bicycle lane.

here comes the Nanny State...
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