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Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

bbc.com

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Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#11

Post by seszett »

TomMarius wrote: post #2

"Some protesters feel speed cameras are solely a revenue-generating measure which takes money from the poor." This is also the case in Central and Eastern Europe. EDIT: Please read what I cited properly. The citation includes the "Some protesters feel ..." part, which is what I meant - that many people in central and eastern Europe feel the same, not that I feel they're right (what I think is irrelevant).

Yes, many people think that but for my part, I have really noticed a big decrease in speeding since these fixed speed cameras have been put into place, in the last 15 years or so.

It was not unusual to have people drive 150 km/h or so on the 110 speedways I was taking then, or 110 on the 90 countryside roads. Nowadays it seems like only few people break speed limits by such margins. In Belgium however (where I live now) there are speedcams as well but I notice a lot more speeding.

I think the difference is at least partly due to the points permit. French drivers get a total of 12 points and lose at least 2 points from any speeding, while Belgians only get a fine, which probably doesn't give a lot of incentive to people who have enough money to just pay the fine.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#12

Post by gambiting »

D_Guidi wrote: post #6
TomMarius wrote: post #2

"Some protesters feel speed cameras are solely a revenue-generating measure which takes money from the poor." This is also the case in Central and Eastern Europe. EDIT: Please read what I cited properly. The citation includes the "Some protesters feel ..." part, which is what I meant - that many people in central and eastern Europe feel the same, not that I feel they're right (what I think is irrelevant).

the poor simply can respect the rules like the rich, right?

I mean, if the speed limit says 50km/h, then you should be doing 50km/h, regardless of the size of your bank account. If someone hits a pedestrian and kills them because they were doing twice the speed limit, "yeah but I'm poor" is not a valid defence.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#13

Post by Traster »

D_Guidi wrote: post #6
TomMarius wrote: post #2

"Some protesters feel speed cameras are solely a revenue-generating measure which takes money from the poor." This is also the case in Central and Eastern Europe. EDIT: Please read what I cited properly. The citation includes the "Some protesters feel ..." part, which is what I meant - that many people in central and eastern Europe feel the same, not that I feel they're right (what I think is irrelevant).

the poor simply can respect the rules like the rich, right?

Nice idea in theory, but the fines aren't proportional to your income and in a lot of places people will point out the speed cameras are in a poor area - so whilst theoretically a rich person speeding would be fined too, they'll just never go past the camera.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#15

Post by mulmen »

D_Guidi wrote: post #6
TomMarius wrote: post #2

"Some protesters feel speed cameras are solely a revenue-generating measure which takes money from the poor." This is also the case in Central and Eastern Europe. EDIT: Please read what I cited properly. The citation includes the "Some protesters feel ..." part, which is what I meant - that many people in central and eastern Europe feel the same, not that I feel they're right (what I think is irrelevant).

the poor simply can respect the rules like the rich, right?

That's not how regressive penalties work. Incentives are only equal if the penalty amount is based on ability to pay.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#16

Post by gambiting »

zuppy wrote: post #8
D_Guidi wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the poor simply can respect the rules like the rich, right?

you got it wrong: the rich will pay, but that amount means nothing to them.

That's where the penalty points come in - you can't pay your way out of losing your licence once you get enough of them. The fine might be meaningless but having to stop driving for 12 months is not.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#17

Post by xxs »

D_Guidi wrote: post #6
TomMarius wrote: post #2

"Some protesters feel speed cameras are solely a revenue-generating measure which takes money from the poor." This is also the case in Central and Eastern Europe. EDIT: Please read what I cited properly. The citation includes the "Some protesters feel ..." part, which is what I meant - that many people in central and eastern Europe feel the same, not that I feel they're right (what I think is irrelevant).

the poor simply can respect the rules like the rich, right?

Sweden and Finland have fines based on the annual income.[0]

[0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-31709454

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#18

Post by sooheon »

gambiting wrote: post #7
TomMarius wrote: post #2

"Some protesters feel speed cameras are solely a revenue-generating measure which takes money from the poor." This is also the case in Central and Eastern Europe. EDIT: Please read what I cited properly. The citation includes the "Some protesters feel ..." part, which is what I meant - that many people in central and eastern Europe feel the same, not that I feel they're right (what I think is irrelevant).

I have very mixed feelings about this. I have been caught by a money-making camera myself(middle of a forest in rural Poland, far away from any houses, and yet it was still a "built-up" area with speed limit of 50km/h, because technically there wasn't a sign ending it after leaving the last town few km back), but on the other hand, there's so many people speeding in cities, frequently doing 100km/h or above on very b…

Let's assume poor and rich are equally likely to speed (except the rich who only move in limos or helis). Flat fees still hurt the poor more, because they cut into living expenses. To be truly egalitarian, these fees should be a % of income and a % of wealth.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#19

Post by sschueller »

TomMarius wrote: post #2

"Some protesters feel speed cameras are solely a revenue-generating measure which takes money from the poor." This is also the case in Central and Eastern Europe. EDIT: Please read what I cited properly. The citation includes the "Some protesters feel ..." part, which is what I meant - that many people in central and eastern Europe feel the same, not that I feel they're right (what I think is irrelevant).

Speed cameras do work but the fines should be structured in a more fair way. "Rich" people with expensive cars don't care, same goes for parking fines.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#20

Post by mulmen »

gambiting wrote: post #12
D_Guidi wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the poor simply can respect the rules like the rich, right?

I mean, if the speed limit says 50km/h, then you should be doing 50km/h, regardless of the size of your bank account. If someone hits a pedestrian and kills them because they were doing twice the speed limit, "yeah but I'm poor" is not a valid defence.

That's not the point. It costs a poor person more to speed because they have less money. Conversely it costs a rich person less to speed.
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