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Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

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Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#291

Post by SilasX »

keepper wrote: post #289

The current biggest threat to Free and Open Source software is cloud computing. Plain and simple.[0] I know this is a blunt and harsh statement to make, but when you sell a service, you have zero native incentives to Open Source the way your system works. It just opens up Competition. This is not unique to AWS/Amazon. But their success gives them the power to have wide OSS damage. This is, to me, the biggest reason w…

Cloud computing was arguably an outgrowth of inability to prevent piracy and everyone being encouraged to open source everything.

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#292

Post by metheus »

amyjess wrote: post #286
DannyBee wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop assuming the value in the development ecosystem belongs to you (and should be extractable as money). It doesn't. Realistically, the next step you will see, unless something changes, is that they will start going after people for API duplication. They have precedent (currently) on their side in the US. None of the reasonable players will touch this, but you can be sure some VC backed "open source" player will be…

> Realistically, the next step you will see, unless something changes, is that they will start going after people for API duplication. They have precedent (currently) on their side in the US. IANAL, but since they already released the API as open-source under the Apache 2.0 license, this avenue is closed off to them.

The API is implemented on the server side; the licensing of the MongoDB drivers is irrelevant.

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#293

Post by SilasX »

keepper wrote: post #288
driverdan wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It took too long for the open-source community to figure out that the cloud providers are killing them How are service providers killing FOSS? That doesn't make sense. Permissive FOSS licensing allows anyone to use their software, regardless of how it's used, and that's how it should be.

Do you get to see AWS's source code for these services? No... That's how it's killing "FOSS". Extend and Extinguish. This is not a new playbook.

I don't think you get to see MongoDB's source code for the enterprise edition either (though I couldn't quickly verify on Google).

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#294

Post by keepper »

SilasX wrote: post #293
keepper wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you get to see AWS's source code for these services? No... That's how it's killing "FOSS". Extend and Extinguish. This is not a new playbook.

I don't think you get to see MongoDB's source code for the enterprise edition either (though I couldn't quickly verify on Google).

Of course they provide source! Source rpms and tgz are downloadable.

Enterprise isn’t gpl, but source is provided.

(This could have been easily answered with a google search, as you pointed out)

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#295

Post by keepper »

SilasX wrote: post #291
keepper wrote: post #289

The current biggest threat to Free and Open Source software is cloud computing. Plain and simple.[0] I know this is a blunt and harsh statement to make, but when you sell a service, you have zero native incentives to Open Source the way your system works. It just opens up Competition. This is not unique to AWS/Amazon. But their success gives them the power to have wide OSS damage. This is, to me, the biggest reason w…

Cloud computing was arguably an outgrowth of inability to prevent piracy and everyone being encouraged to open source everything.

No, it was an outgrowth of infrastructure work being a niche trade, and capacity management by startups ( and mature companies), being a hard task.

This point is well known, and pretty much in every cloud providers marketing material.

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#296

Post by SilasX »

keepper wrote: post #295
SilasX wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloud computing was arguably an outgrowth of inability to prevent piracy and everyone being encouraged to open source everything.

No, it was an outgrowth of infrastructure work being a niche trade, and capacity management by startups ( and mature companies), being a hard task. This point is well known, and pretty much in every cloud providers marketing material.

So, even though it's impossible to prevent piracy, effectively forcing you to hide the code behind an internet API, the real reason to do so is something else, as proven by marketing literature?

If I could re-engineer MongoDB so that a monkey could administer, you'd recommend I still use the cloud model rather than sell binaries?

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#298

Post by SilasX »

keepper wrote: post #294
SilasX wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you get to see MongoDB's source code for the enterprise edition either (though I couldn't quickly verify on Google).

Of course they provide source! Source rpms and tgz are downloadable. Enterprise isn’t gpl, but source is provided. (This could have been easily answered with a google search, as you pointed out)

No, I meant that I did search it on Google, and couldn't easily see from the results which case it is. Google "mongodb enterprise source code" -- which one answers the question?

If it were so easy, you could have provided the citation yourself in that comment.

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#299

Post by metheus »

karmelapple wrote: post #181
WorldMaker wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my case, at least, PouchDB is still a lot handier of an offline-first mobile-capable DB than just about anything else, and because it speaks the CouchDB replication/sync API that still leaves a lot of use cases where CouchDB is more feasible. (It would be great to have more document DBs converge on a replication/sync API for offline-first applications. I've voted on the UserVoice suggestions to CosmosDB on the ide…

Same here. We love how replication is built in to CouchDB from the ground up. I wish MongoDB, which seems to still have more love for it in the world than CouchDB/Cloudant, would have that replication built-in.

Wait... do you mean something other than https://docs.mongodb.com/manual/replication/ ?

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#300

Post by karmelapple »

metheus wrote: post #299
karmelapple wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. We love how replication is built in to CouchDB from the ground up. I wish MongoDB, which seems to still have more love for it in the world than CouchDB/Cloudant, would have that replication built-in.

Wait... do you mean something other than https://docs.mongodb.com/manual/replication/ ?

I'm thinking about the use case to have a native app be able to work nicely with no internet connection, but then once the internet connection resumes, it downloads new data from the server and sends its offline-modified data up to the server.

From a quick search online [0] [1], I see people doing offline MongoDB sync using SQLite, but nothing like using Mongo directly. With CouchDB, we can use either the old Couchbase native app SDK, or the Cloudant native app SDK, to sync up nicely with a CouchDB instance in the cloud. We've had this running for awhile, and it works quite well, and we do not have to shuffle information to and from a SQLite database... at least, we're not doing it, since the Cloudant or Couchbase SDKs for iOS and Android keep track of all the data and store it on the mobile device however they'd like.

If there is anything similar for Mongo, I'd be interested to know!

[0] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/23623295/how-to-make-an-... [1] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/13295960/sqlite-on-andro...

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