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Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

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Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#291

Post by LyndsySimon »

spurgu wrote: post #251
quantum_magpie wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I'm on completely opposite side. Nothing detests me more than killing a free creature. I absolutely loathe hunting and fishing, and I wish it was either made completely illegal, or the hunting of the hunters legalized (I heard comments that they do it for the thrill, so having another hunter on your back should be even more exciting!). I do eat pieces of farmed meat from time to time, though.

Can't argue against how you feel and yeah I agree it's sad to see a poor animal being hunted down and killed by another animal, or a human, but wild and free animals are constantly getting preyed upon and generally don't die of old age so you're not really adding to their suffering in any way by hunting/killing them. That said I wouldn't have anything against making hunting hunters legal. :D At least if they're above…

> That said I wouldn't have anything against making hunting hunters legal. :D At least if they're above a certain income level and thus don't have a practical need to hunt.

I know it's in jest, but I hunt (very occasionally) mostly to remind myself of the reality that the meat I eat comes from the taking of a life. It has nothing to do with physical need.

I think it's much more wrong to eat meat and hide how it is obtained from one's self than it is to stay at least tentatively connected to the reality.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#292

Post by spurgu »

LyndsySimon wrote: post #291
spurgu wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't argue against how you feel and yeah I agree it's sad to see a poor animal being hunted down and killed by another animal, or a human, but wild and free animals are constantly getting preyed upon and generally don't die of old age so you're not really adding to their suffering in any way by hunting/killing them. That said I wouldn't have anything against making hunting hunters legal. :D At least if they're above…

> That said I wouldn't have anything against making hunting hunters legal. :D At least if they're above a certain income level and thus don't have a practical need to hunt. I know it's in jest, but I hunt (very occasionally) mostly to remind myself of the reality that the meat I eat comes from the taking of a life. It has nothing to do with physical need. I think it's much more wrong to eat meat and hide how it is ob…

I think that's very good reasoning.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#293

Post by perfmode »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #255
fnovd wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Eating meat is natural Relieving yourself outdoors is natural, and we've been doing it for ages. Killing intraspecies rivals/competitors is natural, and we've been doing it for ages. Dying of a preventable disease is natural, and we've been doing it for ages. I don't think we should base our behavior off naturalistic fallacies. Is eating meat better for your health than abstaining? Usually not. Is eating meat better…

Our political and cultural system is largely based on the naturalistic fallicy, one can't blame people too much for following it.

Your comment is an appeal to tradition meant to justify a different appeal to tradition. How interesting.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#294

Post by LyndsySimon »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #60
pmarreck wrote: post #13

To forgive the tautology, intelligent creatures are intelligent. Which also means that love is possible. I mean... every person who's ever had a pet (of any sort) understands this (as I stare at the photo of my recently-deceased and very-charismatic cat). It may not fit into any naturalistic model that clearly separates humans from these other intelligent creatures (and ascribes all perception of humanlike feeling to…

> perhaps dimmer versions than the ones we're familiar with No, I think that's our subconscious desire to believe we are separate from the world around us speaking. They may experience and express feelings differently than we do, but that doesn't mean that experience is less meaningful.

I would argue it's actually the opposite.

It seems to me that the more intelligent a being is, the more difficult they find it to allow themselves to fully experience their own emotion - be it love, anger, or whatever.

In my experience, cattle take that to an extreme. A cow can absolutely experience love and pain - but even the most intelligent of cattle that I've known were pretty dim compared to even other animals.

It seems to me as if the only thing they can experience are their emotions, and therefore emotions are much more meaningful from their frame of reference than from ours.

Hogs, on the other hand, are scary smart. When I was young I had a hog that incidentally bit my shorts while I was feeding them and pulled them down. He saw that I was embarrassed by that, and from that point forward any time I came to feed them and had another person with me, he'd make a beeline for me and try to "pants" me. He thought it was funny.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#295

Post by LyndsySimon »

agumonkey wrote: post #98
uhtred wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100000 years ago humans had significantly less empathy than we do now. And they didn't have a grocery store with more varieties of vegetables, whole grains, beans, lentils, fruits, seeds, nuts, tofu, tempeh, seitan, cashew cheese, veggie burgers, vegan sausages, vegan pizza, vegan chikn, plant based milks... than one could possibly imagine, a short drive or walk from their home.

Are you sure it's empathy ? 10000 years ago someone killing an animal knew it was taking a life. I've read once that jewish religion did create kosher rituals because of that (maybe other religions too I didn't dig further). Today it feels more like depression based morality caused by the chaos of the last decades and the glooming collapse than empathy. At least that's how I feel when I see people talking about the s…

Interesting that you chose cats as your example, as they are a predator animal that kills for sport. My cats have killed many mice, but I've never seen them consume one - they much prefer their food bowls.

Cats are instinctively driven to hunt and kill, even when they have no need or desire for sustenance. They enjoy it.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#296

Post by agumonkey »

LyndsySimon wrote: post #295
agumonkey wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure it's empathy ? 10000 years ago someone killing an animal knew it was taking a life. I've read once that jewish religion did create kosher rituals because of that (maybe other religions too I didn't dig further). Today it feels more like depression based morality caused by the chaos of the last decades and the glooming collapse than empathy. At least that's how I feel when I see people talking about the s…

Interesting that you chose cats as your example, as they are a predator animal that kills for sport. My cats have killed many mice, but I've never seen them consume one - they much prefer their food bowls. Cats are instinctively driven to hunt and kill, even when they have no need or desire for sustenance. They enjoy it.

Interesting, I thought they did it some of the prey .. I'm super super surprised about this 'sport' side. Even real wild animals eat their prey most of the time.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#297

Post by agumonkey »

agurk wrote: post #273
agumonkey wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not entertainment, it's about not overpowering, I used bow as an example, maybe it's still too strong (you can kill from afar) but compared to a gun, at least it requires skills to actually kill. Anybody can pull a trigger.

I spoke to an older hunter in New Zealand once who said he initially started with a view like yours. He was into rifle marksmanship, and didn't see the point in shooting at a live target. He had a friend who said it was harder than he thought, and invited him to come along sometime and see if he found it easy. Of course he went out, and even when lead in the direction of the deer couldn't manage to get one. After tha…

It might not be trivial but it's infinitely easier. The speed and energy, the range ..

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#298

Post by codezero »

belorn wrote: post #247
codezero wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to say something that people probably won't want to hear, but I hope to justify it and convince others of it as well. Don't feed wild animals. The difference between a pet, and a wild animal is that a pet owner takes responsibility for the wellbeing and actions of a pet. Feeding wild animals is detrimental to their wellbeing. They become accustomed to people, and not all people are nice to animals. You won'…

> I've saved a crow and a seagull, and taken them to wild animal rescue centers This is emphatic behavior, but do know that in almost all circumstances the result is that the animal rescue centers will euthanized animals that is not endangered, has protected status, or has local biological diversity benefits. Seagulls and feral pigeons in particular are very unlikely to leave the center alive. This also happens for l…

Absolutely. The crow I rescued was euthanized. They give you a number to check on the animals you bring in. That said, they provide great care and release thousands of rescues each year, and if they are too injured they at least get a humane end. It tears me up watching an animal die slowly.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#299

Post by adolfojp »

reecestart wrote: post #204
erikig wrote: post #152

Dindim goes off for months at a time, swimming thousands of miles, avoiding predators, encountering other penguins, better looking and more interesting penguins, but in his mind there's a picture of a man, and a location, from many years ago, that he feels compelled to return to, every year. I got a little teary thinking about this.

Given he was found in 2011 and Magellanic penguins live to about 20 years of age[1] he's at least half-way through his lifespan, maybe longer. Couple that with de Souza's age and soon enough there'll be a time when they go to meet and one or the other won't be there. [1] http://www.penguins.cl/magellanic-penguins.htm

Why did you do this to me?

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#300

Post by goldenkey »

zackmorris wrote: post #103
pmarreck wrote: post #13

To forgive the tautology, intelligent creatures are intelligent. Which also means that love is possible. I mean... every person who's ever had a pet (of any sort) understands this (as I stare at the photo of my recently-deceased and very-charismatic cat). It may not fit into any naturalistic model that clearly separates humans from these other intelligent creatures (and ascribes all perception of humanlike feeling to…

Ya I'm troubled by this too. I'm really into bodybuilding but the human body simply can't recover unless it eats beef/salmon/eggs/chicken/etc at least one or more times per week, especially after the minor injuries that inevitably come with lifting weights. As a general rule, I never eat mammals that are omnivores or carnivores, so pigs and anything higher in the food chain are out. Veganism is a little unrealistic I…

I lift HIT for BB. You might give Elmhurst's nut milks and protein shakes a try. Peanut protein is extremely comparable to meat protein. Veganism isnt unrealistic - it is just not a walk in the park unless you can afford to buy nice products like these peanut protein shakes and drink 8 of them a day.

Proper veganism for lazy hackers like us, that BB, is expensive. You and me both know we arent going to eat a plate of chewy mushy beans. Find the products that work for you. Elmhurst is basically my go-to for most of my protein.

https://elmhurst1925.com/shop/protein-shakes.html

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