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Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

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Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#231

Post by QuestionMarking »

buremba wrote: post #230

I don't understand why people are reacting to it so aggressively. That's basically how AWS works, they did the same to Apach Kafka with Kinesis, Prestodb with Athena, PostgreSQL and MySQL with Aurora, Redis with ElastiCache and many others over the last 4 years so it's not new. It took too long for the open-source community to figure out that the cloud providers are killing them, now it's too late. Well played, AWS.

It's because nerds love to lose their shit any time a big company does anything.

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#232

Post by konschubert »

buremba wrote: post #230

I don't understand why people are reacting to it so aggressively. That's basically how AWS works, they did the same to Apach Kafka with Kinesis, Prestodb with Athena, PostgreSQL and MySQL with Aurora, Redis with ElastiCache and many others over the last 4 years so it's not new. It took too long for the open-source community to figure out that the cloud providers are killing them, now it's too late. Well played, AWS.

Well, people are angry about that, that’s why they react aggressively.

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#234

Post by christkv »

wmf wrote: post #81
ISV_Damocles wrote: post #73

Now I kinda hope Oracle decides to buy out MongoDB and integrate it into their own cloud. Then Oracle can decide to pull the same bullshit that they did with Google over the Java APIs with the MongoDB APIs but now against their current enemy Amazon (and Microsoft, too). Then a combined Google + Amazon + Microsoft may finally be able to reverse the API Copyright insanity that is hovering ominously over the tech indust…

AWS is preemptively defensive about API licensing claims: "Amazon DocumentDB implements the Apache 2.0 open source MongoDB 3.6 API".

I think they are referencing the drivers which are licensed under Apache 2.0.

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#235

Post by buremba »

konschubert wrote: post #232
buremba wrote: post #230

I don't understand why people are reacting to it so aggressively. That's basically how AWS works, they did the same to Apach Kafka with Kinesis, Prestodb with Athena, PostgreSQL and MySQL with Aurora, Redis with ElastiCache and many others over the last 4 years so it's not new. It took too long for the open-source community to figure out that the cloud providers are killing them, now it's too late. Well played, AWS.

Well, people are angry about that, that’s why they react aggressively.

Open-source gave AWS the ability to monetize their software so the software companies should be careful enough to prevent any other big company to steal their software and use their name to make money.

I think that it's too late considering AWS already did that to most of the industries but here is Hazelcast's take: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/open-source-needs-protect-its...

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#237

Post by danpalmer »

tanilama wrote: post #196
mrep wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely because it was faster. Amazon's strategy is to launch new features ASAP and then rely on everyone having to be on-call to fix shit when it inevitably breaks in prod because they rushed to launch. I will admit that while their "operational excellence" is shit, the security engineers do have quite a bit of power to block launches so their security isn't as bad as the reliability. However, the fact that write…

AWS prioritizes launch above EVERYTHING. It is their strategy, to have market tells them what to build. I think it works, and AWS has yet been brought down by this horizontal complexity. Quite an achievement, but might not be a satisfying experience for the engineers work there.

This is one of the main reasons why I don't like AWS services, everything just seems so half-finished. There's not a lot in AWS that I would trust enough to use in production.

I wonder how widespread this view is. I suspect it's more widespread than Amazon realise. They may have optimised into a local maximum where they get a lot of value from being first to market, but could potentially get more by being first to "viable to trust a business on".

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#238

Post by ProblemFactory »

Lazare wrote: post #127
dman wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the way out? Would love to hear from people.

Ultimately, Cantrill put it well: > ...for those open source companies that still harbor magical beliefs, let me put this to you as directly as possible: cloud services providers are emphatically not going to license your proprietary software. I mean, you knew that, right? MongoDB Inc cannot make Amazon pay commercial license fees. That is not a thing that will happen. They have a lever in front of them with two posi…

> They have a lever in front of them with two positions, one of which is "large cloud companies might use your software for free", and the other is "large cloud companies will not use your software at all".

Was that even the goal? My impression of the licensing change was not that they expected to Amazon to pay fees for offering a hosted MongoDB service. It was instead to lock Amazon out, and keep MongoDB Inc. as the only "cloud provider" of a hosted MongoDB service (perhaps still on top of AWS but with separate management interface).

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#239

Post by danpalmer »

rafaelturk wrote: post #39
dstaley wrote: post #18

If I'm reading the pricing page correctly, DocumentDB would run a _minimum_ of $200/month. That's for the smallest instance and no storage or I/O. Kind of steep if you ask me.

Besides that AWS will charge per transaction (at 0.2 per million) outrageous given that you already pay per instance. Correct pricing strategy needs to be per request or per instance, AWS is charging for both

AWS very often charges across multiple axes. I tried to model out our Cloudfront charges and they charge there for 3-4 different factors, each of which varies in pricing by region.

I think the idea is that by charging precisely where they incur costs, they can be much more reactive to different usage patterns, and therefore be more competitively priced overall.

Although it certainly does create lock-in due to not being able to figure out your billing and accurately model alternatives.

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#240

Post by manigandham »

evil-olive wrote: post #217
talawahdotnet wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, how long ago was that? I would be curious to know if the WiredTiger switch ever happened, and what that support relationship looks like not given the contentious relationship between MongoDB and AWS. The old Wired Tiger Inc website[1] still lists AWS as a customer. Then again, the relationship between AWS and Oracle is even more contentious and Aurora MySQL is one of AWS's most popular products so I don'…

3+ years ago, so it's entirely possible that things have changed since I left. I don't have any more recent information on the state of the system. At least when I was there, the strong focus was always on adding new features (global & local secondary indexes, change streams, cross-region replication, and so on) to keep up with the Joneses (MongoDB et al). Meanwhile, a bunch of internal Amazon teams were taking a dep…

According to this post [1] the WiredTiger project seems to have been cancelled after the acquisition.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13170746#13173927

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