Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#151

Post by titanix2 » Thu, Jan 10, 2019, 4:05 AM UTC

rjbwork wrote: post #5

vaer-k wrote: post #2

Finally an AWS service where the name makes sense and describes what it is. I hope this is the start of a trend.

I love Azure for this. The names are almost all extremely straightforward. There are a handful that have made the jump from confusing to straight forward, and a handful that have made the jump from straightforward to confusing (CosmosDB, formerly DocumentDB, chiefly comes to mind).

Yes the names are good but they still suffer for the MS illness: they change every few years. I also agree with other comments about the portal UI. Heck, it's supposed to be a professional tool...

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#152

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 10, 2019, 4:07 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #133

erikig wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice if Amazon provided an API to access the data via SQL alongside the MongoDB API; I've seen quite a number of organizations migrate from mongo to Postgres once they get out of the rapid development phase. This would make that transition butter smooth.

Anecdote: I led a C# project where we could seamlessly switch back and forth between Mongo and SQL Server without changing the underlying LINQ expressions. We sent the expressions to the Mongo driver and they got translated to MongoQuery we sent the expressions to Entity Framework and they got translated to Sql Server.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#153

Post by dman » Thu, Jan 10, 2019, 4:09 AM UTC

DannyBee wrote: post #131

dman wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the way out? Would love to hear from people.

Stop assuming the value in the development ecosystem belongs to you (and should be extractable as money). It doesn't. Realistically, the next step you will see, unless something changes, is that they will start going after people for API duplication. They have precedent (currently) on their side in the US. None of the reasonable players will touch this, but you can be sure some VC backed "open source" player will be…

By "they" do you mean Mongodb?

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#154

Post by systoll » Thu, Jan 10, 2019, 4:11 AM UTC

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #144

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no secret formula to stop people from competing with you. If MongoDB Inc is successful, it should be because they run a good document-database-as-a-service people want to use, not because they earn indefinite seigniorage from launching a popular open source project.

But isn't it wrong to place all economic value in the hosting layer rather than the software layer?

Maybe, but MongoDB did that by themselves by making the software layer free.

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#155

Post by api » Thu, Jan 10, 2019, 4:12 AM UTC

abrookewood wrote: post #70

I was reading a post [0] by Brian Cantrill that predicted this would be the result of licences like the SSPL. I instinctively disagreed with him, but it turns out he was right: "The cloud services providers are currently reproprietarizing all of computing — they are making their own CPUs for crying out loud! — reimplementing the bits of your software that they need in the name of the service that their customers want…

Years ago I realized that a hidden driver for the growth of cloud is this. The cloud is DRM, and almost uncrackable DRM at that since you have neither the code nor the hardware.

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#156

Post by athrun » Thu, Jan 10, 2019, 4:18 AM UTC

gazzini wrote: post #137

iamed2 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it requires an elastic IP which slows launch of lambdas since they have to connect to VPC Do you have any other info/links related to this?

There's an enlightening graph in this post: https://medium.freecodecamp.org/lambda-vpc-cold-starts-a-lat... I was surprised to learn this. When working in Lambda, you have to choose between a relational database & a responsive API. It seems inevitable that AWS will fix this soon, but apparently this is a significant architectural problem. As I understand it, RDS instances should (must?) be accessed from within a VPC,…

> I'm not sure I fully grasp the problem (why doesn't DynamoDB need to be accessed from within a VPC?)

This is due to the fact that DynamoDB's query API is a standard AWS API which means granular internal/external access can be provided through IAM mechanisms (ie: roles, temporary tokens, federation, etc.).

On the contrary, to access RDS, Redshift or DocumentDB you would use standard ODBC/JDBC/Mongo facilities, which do not rely on IAM mechanisms, leaving VPC/Security Groups as the only isolation option.

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#157

Post by daxfohl » Thu, Jan 10, 2019, 4:19 AM UTC

tootie wrote: post #22

notmyname wrote: post #3

seems an obvious response to https://www.mongodb.com/press/mongodb-issues-new-server-side...

Azure has been running a Mongo-compliant DB under their Cosmos umbrella for quite a while. It's not clear to me that either Azure or AWS are actually running Mongo software under the hood or rather a proprietary DB that uses the Mongo wire protocol. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cosmos-db/mongodb-int...

it's not mongo software, there are some incompatibilities.

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#158

Post by spullara » Thu, Jan 10, 2019, 4:29 AM UTC

naner wrote: post #150

meddlepal wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could Mongo or other companies use the Oracle v. Google precedent regarding API copyright to extract money from competitive vultures like Amazon?

Oracle are the good guys in this scenario?

They always were the OK guys in that argument. Google invented a whole new VM and bastardized the language just to get out of a $1/device licensing fee for mobile uses. The Java ecosystem has been irreparably harmed by Dalvik and its lack of support for more modern versions of Java.

On another note, anyone that doesn't think API design is a creative endeavor and worthy of protection probably has never made a great API before. It may be OK to accept that and also let other people use the API for free but I think ruling that it isn't is BS.

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#159

Post by Lazare » Thu, Jan 10, 2019, 4:35 AM UTC

meddlepal wrote: post #148

Lazare wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately, Cantrill put it well: > ...for those open source companies that still harbor magical beliefs, let me put this to you as directly as possible: cloud services providers are emphatically not going to license your proprietary software. I mean, you knew that, right? MongoDB Inc cannot make Amazon pay commercial license fees. That is not a thing that will happen. They have a lever in front of them with two posi…

Could Mongo or other companies use the Oracle v. Google precedent regarding API copyright to extract money from competitive vultures like Amazon?

I hope like hell that horrible precedent doesn't stand; if you find yourself on Oracle's side you may want to rethink some of your priors. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of this specific issue, some solutions are worse than the problems they solve.

Re: Amazon DocumentDB, with MongoDB compatibility

#160

Post by illumin8 » Thu, Jan 10, 2019, 4:39 AM UTC

social_quotient wrote: post #147

I really wish this were priced more along the lines of https://www.compose.com/pricing - a $200/m floor is a tough dB cost to absorb on smaller yet important projects. Suppose an app has a few mb of data and maybe one day hits 100mb of awesomeness I really have to pay $200/m here? I get it, I love Aws, just wish this was priced differently.

If you need a cheap/free document store for a small app, just use DynamoDB. It's free (forever, not just the first year) up to 25GB of storage and enough read/write capacity units to handle up to 200M requests per month: https://aws.amazon.com/free/?awsf.Free%20Tier%20Types=catego...