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Samsung Phone Users Perturbed to Find They Can't Delete Facebook

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Re: Samsung Phone Users Perturbed to Find They Can't Delete Facebook

#421
I'm not quite sure why this is controversial. "Undeletable" applications is as old as keeping factory-reset images on devices.

Would people prefer that you could "remove" apps even if that meant they were still part of what's stored on the phone?

If you factory reset the phone, people expect it to look like whatever it looked like whenever you first started the device after taking it out of the box.

That's why you can't uninstall it; it's part of the system image. If there's an issue with how this work, the issue is that there are bundled apps, not that you can't uninstall them.

Re: Samsung Phone Users Perturbed to Find They Can't Delete Facebook

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got one off the kickstarter, and it's a neat little gadget. It hasn't fully replaced my main smartphone, but it's great for outdoors activities, or if I'm wearing an outfit without big pockets and don't want to carry a bag.

Did get another SIM or move the one from your phone into the Atom?

I swap my SIM when I want to use it, but it would be less hassle to get a separate one.

Re: Samsung Phone Users Perturbed to Find They Can't Delete Facebook

#423
post #20

It's not just FB, my Samsung S9 came preloaded with 'undeletable' Microsoft apps too. But this is nothing new, Samsung phones have came preloaded with bloat since forever. When buying a new phone I always spend some time deleting all Samsung, Microsoft, Facebook and carrier related apps. Yes, you can delete 'undeletable' apps through ADB, without rooting the device. pm uninstall -k --user 0

While I didn't have microsoft apps on my S9, if you install netguard (firewall) [1] you'll see that most samsung apps are constantly trying to get a connection with facebook servers and Samsung HQ. Apps that have no reason to have internet connectivity, like the dialer, clock app, the finder (search functionality within the stock launcher) are phoning home [!] Unfortunately Samsung phones have locked bootloaders, so…

I'm not surprised - every time I have Android devices (specifically Samsung) on my network, my pi-hole goes ballistic and the charts spike up noticeably. Those are all advertisement CDNs or telemetry. This does not happen with my hardware (all Linux or macOS/iOS).

Re: Samsung Phone Users Perturbed to Find They Can't Delete Facebook

#424
post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just tried it in 10.14... and you are right! It wasn't possible in 10.12/10.13.

Definitely possible at least since 10.10 (Yosemite). Not sure how SIP affects this, as I have it disabled.

In Yosemite or without SIP it would be possible with plain sudo. In El-Capitan it definitely wasn't that easy (I do have SIP enabled).

Re: Samsung Phone Users Perturbed to Find They Can't Delete Facebook

#425

I'm not quite sure why this is controversial. "Undeletable" applications is as old as keeping factory-reset images on devices. Would people prefer that you could "remove" apps even if that meant they were still part of what's stored on the phone? If you factory reset the phone, people expect it to look like whatever it looked like whenever you first started the device after taking it out of the box. That's why you ca…

What I would like is a bootloader that has the following features:

    * End user management of trusted keys
    * Keep most major manufacturer keys pre-loaded (even if disabled for current use)
    * Factory reset online, not from device contents.
When a 'factory reset' or other base-reinstall is requested, look at an indirect URI associated with the preferred active key (this means WiFi, Ethernet, or other network connection must be made). Similar to how SYSLINUX (in various flavors) looks for different identifiers from specific to generic, query for an existing 'file' that matches the device model and serial / MAC in a pre-defined way. When a possible file is found download the bootstrap, validate that it is signed with an allowed key* (if it has a valid sig, but the key isn't allowed, ask the end user), if it's valid run downloaded bootstrap.

The downloaded bootstrap should, ideally, validate and re-configure the flash layout, possibly update system firmware if desirable, then apply the current version (or maybe offer a choice of back versions if applicable) of the 'factory' image for the device.

This way updates to the core image can be shipped with factory resets instead of some fossilized version of the software that should never be used for security or incompatibility reasons.

The above also applies to how generic computers should work, I understand that Apple devices are fairly close to this obvious process but I believe (offhand) that they lack end-user empowerment / management of authorized authorities at a bios level.

Re: Samsung Phone Users Perturbed to Find They Can't Delete Facebook

#426
In Australia the ACCC which is our competition and consumer watchdog, released a preliminary report in December, into the dominance of the likes of Google and Facebook.

One of things they are proposing is stopping likes of Google from being a default search engine in Australian devices. In that consumers will be offered a choice rather than provided one as default.

I would really like to see this extend through to bloatware applications where possible such as the myriad of random Microsoft apps that get installed, as well as the Google suite in non-Google devices.

I should be able to remove the applications that are on my device and use the applications only I want to. If I use Spotify for music, then I should be able to remove Google Music and Samsung Music. In the same way that I can remove Apple music and use Spotify on my iPhone.

Re: Samsung Phone Users Perturbed to Find They Can't Delete Facebook

#427

I'm glad this story has gone viral recently. Hopefully there will be more pressure to stop this practice. I've been using Android for a number of years now and between the handset manufacturers and the wireless providers, there has been undeletable crapware since the beginning. I've been slowly modifying my behavior in response. I stopped buying phones directly from the wireless providers (e.g. Verizon). This has not…

> Samsung, please get rid of Bixby and all of your crappy Samsung apps. Samsung, please don't. Even if they are not great, having some counter to google's monopoly position is sorely needed. ... but then couldn't they just ship their internet browser or chrome and not both? No, they can't due to google's oppressive contract, which is what the EU fine was about.

How about shipping with Firefox pre-installed? I mean, there are lots of androids that come with two or three different versions of Webkit, so why not bring a Browser that is a real alternative.

AFAIK, mobile Chrome still has the better dev-tools, but from an end-user perspective, being able to install plugins for your mobile browser (like ublock origin) without having to root the phone is a real competitive edge.

Re: Samsung Phone Users Perturbed to Find They Can't Delete Facebook

#428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS came with Facebook and Twitter not too long ago, not to mention Yahoo Weather, Google Maps, and a bunch of others. https://www.axios.com/apple-removes-facebook-and-twitter-int...

Those were system integration frameworks, specifically so you could sign in to your social networks in Settings. The apps were never preloaded.

> Those were system integration framework

In other words, applications that do far more than the stub on Samsung phones, and not only could they not be deleted, but they couldn't be disabled either, so they always showed up in Settings. https://www.cnet.com/how-to/understanding-facebook-integrati...

Re: Samsung Phone Users Perturbed to Find They Can't Delete Facebook

#429
post #20

It's not just FB, my Samsung S9 came preloaded with 'undeletable' Microsoft apps too. But this is nothing new, Samsung phones have came preloaded with bloat since forever. When buying a new phone I always spend some time deleting all Samsung, Microsoft, Facebook and carrier related apps. Yes, you can delete 'undeletable' apps through ADB, without rooting the device. pm uninstall -k --user 0

I have an s8 on the table next to me collecting dust over issues like that. If only they would let you unlock the bootloader for a lineage install it would be a good phone.

Re: Samsung Phone Users Perturbed to Find They Can't Delete Facebook

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the iPhones, phones distributed by Google, starting with the Google Phone G1 in 2008, and continuing to the Nexus phones and today's current Pixel phones (Pixel 1, 2, and 3), have never had crapware.

That isn't really accurate, you're just defining "crapware" is such a way so that Google's apps don't qualify. That's a double standard. Google Drive, Gmail, Google Photos, Play Music, Play Movies, Play Games, Play Books, Duo, Google+, and YouTube could all be called as crapware since they aren't required for core phone functions (and upsell for-profit services). I guess it is somewhat a discussion what we mean by "c…

I disagree with a definition of crapware that emphasizes the inability to remove, rather than the clear crappyness. I would call the first mandatoryware.

To me, crapware is:

- Order of magnitude bad engineering by industry standards (esp if it is not customer centric).

- So bad that if it could be removed, a majority of people who know how would remove it immediately.

- So bad that if [FANG / anyone competent at software] designed an alternative, most people would switch to it.

Crapware for me is not identically equivalent to mandatoryware. I get the GNU-like hate for mandatoryware from some people, but it's useful to have a distinction between (potentially subpar) mandatoryware like IE in Windows XP, and the absolute rubbish that was Verizon Music Store on my 2005 flip phone.

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