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Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

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Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#141

Post by yesenadam »

agumonkey wrote: post #82
WalterSear wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been vegan 20 years. Big, socially-censured changes can seem daunting, but anyone who says you can't eat well, and easily, is fooling themselves. You either live your values, or come to terms with being part of what you don't like about the world.

Not what I was saying. Eating meat is natural, it's been for cosmic ages, and to an extent I have no issue with that. The mass globalized consumption does bother me. I reduce my consumption. I might try vegan but I'll surely miss all the meat based products. Maybe I'll find a middle point by breeding, killing producing it myself so at least I did it on my own, think what you want, there's a form of respect in that. I…

I haven't eaten meat in nearly 30 years, and literally haven't missed it once, ever. Have never craved it at all. I guess I wouldn't have expected that!

It feels strange writing 'have never craved it'...ghoulish or something. Vegetarianism/veganism just becomes a habit, and once you're outside the, er, 'meat world', you can see the brainwashing, it's not pretty. All those heart-warming tv ads for eating lamb etc. (Kill and eat cute little sheep!??) The word 'meat' sounds...well, something akin to how 'long pig' sounds - somewhat disturbing. (I did a cartoon once of a cow saying "Hi! I'm a meat animal.") I hate how the fish in the oceans are referred to as 'fish stock', as if they only exist as food for humans. It bugs me more that humans are eating them all, and polluting the oceans with nets in doing it!

Personally, I'm a lazy vegan - I do vegan shopping, but don't refuse everything offered with some dairy in it. That would be a pain. Cheesy dishes just don't taste good to me now, they seem...smelly (e.g. it's getting harder to find pesto without cheese added..blech) But I infrequently think about what I eat or don't. Apart from these few times on HN, I haven't thought about it in years. I was more of a vegan activist when young...but I don't think I changed anyone's mind. It seems almost impossible for someone to see that something nearly everyone does is totally unethical. I can't remember what flipped the switch in my head. I think it just dawned on me one day.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#142

Post by pathseeker »

uhtred wrote: post #107
joejerryronnie wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love animals. I also love to eat animals. I don’t have any trouble reconciling these two things.

Then you don't love animals. Or, you are happy for living creatures you love to be killed and to eat them, which is scary.

I love plants. The fact that I eat them too does not change that at all.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#143

Post by fnovd »

pmarreck wrote: post #122
uhtred wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you continue to eat other animals if you feel the way you do about other animals?

Thank you for calling me out on this (admitted) bit of bullshit in me. ;) I guess I am comfortable with my cognitive dissonance in this area. FOR NOW. (But seemingly no other areas. I memorized just about all the informal fallacies mostly so I can Correct People's Bad Thinking On The Internet, sigh...) I'm also waiting for companies like https://impossiblefoods.com/ to do their thing. I tried their impossible burger,…

Unfortunately there is a part of our brain that just wants to eat the stuff we're used to eating. It's really hard to change your diet, whether that's to lose weight, to mitigate a disease like diabetes, or to eat with your ethics. From my experience, the most successful way to cut out animal products from your diet is to have a passion for cooking. Trying out a new vegan recipe every week or so will start to build up your repertoire to the point where you're hankering for a dish that just happens to be vegan instead of consciously fighting against your desires.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#144

Post by pathseeker »

anigbrowl wrote: post #27
firefoxd wrote: post #2

Animalus Anthropomorphicus, "the animal as seen through the human eyes." I think Dindim has found a source of free food. Although it's a win win because who doesn't want to be visited by a penguin.

I find the people quickest to go on about anthropomorphism tend to have the least experience with animals. When you think about it.'s quite the intellectual conceit to assume you fully understand the decision-making of another creature and that it is entirely dependent on food. Reminds me of certain economic ideologues who insist everyone, whether they know it or not, is motivated by money and self-advancement.

>Reminds me of certain economic ideologues who insist everyone, whether they know it or not, is motivated by money and self-advancement.

Unless they are just destructive sociopaths, everyone is motivated by perceived gains. You're misunderstanding if you think they are saying just "money".

People very frequently turn down a higher monetary value in exchange for some perceived gain otherwise. This is completely modeled by economics.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#145

Post by fnovd »

pathseeker wrote: post #142
uhtred wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you don't love animals. Or, you are happy for living creatures you love to be killed and to eat them, which is scary.

I love plants. The fact that I eat them too does not change that at all.

It's a bit silly to compare killing a plant to killing something with a central nervous system. Plants don't think or feel. Birds and mammals certainly do.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#146

Post by majani »

WalterSear wrote: post #78
agumonkey wrote: post #68

We have to eat.. but if we hadn't I'd be happy never have to harm another living form. It's how nature is built .. but still.

I've been vegan 20 years. Big, socially-censured changes can seem daunting, but anyone who says you can't eat well, and easily, is fooling themselves. You either live your values, or come to terms with being part of what you don't like about the world.

Even in the growing and harvesting of plants, large amounts of animals get killed in the process. The moles underground, the rabbits and hares that eat the plants, the rats and snakes that shelter in the piles of harvest etc, they all have to be killed en masse to ensure a good harvest. Given this fact, veganism appears to me like a refusal to accept the reality that this world is a harsh one full of chaos. I prefer to focus on sustainable consumption as the reasonable balance between the two extremes of veganism and American fast food.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#147

Post by the_gastropod »

pathseeker wrote: post #131
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eating meat is natural, it's been for cosmic ages, and to an extent I have no issue with that. That's true, but I think a similar argument can be made that any situation where the more powerful control the less powerful is natural, e.g. slavery, patriarchy, etc. That said, I think the first step for everyone is to realize the cognitive dissonance that modern society tries to keep in place when it comes to eating me…

>meat is just a nice, tasty hunk of protein that comes wrapped in plastic and styrofoam from the grocery storeand is in no way related to that adorable cow video I saw on Instagram Honest question. Are people this ignorant? I grew up around ranches so the source of meat is blindingly obvious to me. Are people really seeing beef in the grocery store as magic that comes from nowhere?

I don't think people are necessarily that ignorant. But the dirty business of slaughtering animals has been hidden away from public eye extremely well. There's a certain "out of sight out of mind" aspect to it.

If, to eat meat, people had to kill the animal themselves, what proportion of meat eaters do you think would continue the practice? I obviously don't know the answer, but I suspect it would be far less than 100%.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#148

Post by erikig »

pmarreck wrote: post #129
airstrike wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because at the end of the day I have to eat and meat is a fantastic source of nutrients, many of which aren't found in a vegan diet like heme-iron.

FWIW I tried their Impossible Burger and it was amazingly spot-on, flavor and looks and texturewise. But you are correct about the other criticisms/concerns about vegan diets in your child comment (I responded to this one because HN apparently limits you to 4 or so levels' deep commenting) EDIT: Now the ability to reply to that one has returned. Not sure why that happened, but whatever... leaving this here

Wait till you try Impossible Burger 2.0...OMG

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#149

Post by abecedarius »

grimgrin wrote: post #137
rurp wrote: post #116

When I was a kid my family raised three young kestrels (small birds of prey that look like a hawk) who had lost their mother. They had an outdoor enclosure and we did not handle them much, but they understandably got attached. Once we released them, they stayed in the area and would often swoop out of the sky and land on my head. It gave visiting neighbors and friends quite a surprise! We gradually saw less of the bi…

what'd it feel like to have the bird land on your head? were you wearing a hat?

The time a small bird landed on my shoulder, I thought someone had tapped my shoulder until I started turning around and it flapped off.

Re: Penguin travels every year to visit man who rescued him (2016)

#150

Post by fnovd »

majani wrote: post #146
WalterSear wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been vegan 20 years. Big, socially-censured changes can seem daunting, but anyone who says you can't eat well, and easily, is fooling themselves. You either live your values, or come to terms with being part of what you don't like about the world.

Even in the growing and harvesting of plants, large amounts of animals get killed in the process. The moles underground, the rabbits and hares that eat the plants, the rats and snakes that shelter in the piles of harvest etc, they all have to be killed en masse to ensure a good harvest. Given this fact, veganism appears to me like a refusal to accept the reality that this world is a harsh one full of chaos. I prefer…

The largest consumer of crops grown in the United States are our farmed animals. Eating soybeans directly instead of sending them to factory farms reduces the amount of animals killed, both in the factories and on the fields. There is no trade-off in terms of animal death when switching to a plant-based diet. You are always killing fewer animals.
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