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No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

nytimes.com

181–190 of 221 posts

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#181

I’d like to congratulate the brain trust at silicon valley for inventing public education and taxes

Except it's not.

"Public education and taxes" (1) means everyone pays into the system and then people can enroll without any additional payment (or maybe with diminished additional payment).

You could also have publicly insured student loans (2), where the student pays tuition with a loan and then if they later default on the loan then the public eats the cost.

But this system (3) is neither. In this system, you get your degree and then you start paying for it when your income is enough to afford it. Importantly, if you never attain that level of income, the _University_ eats the cost.

System 2 can lead to ever-ballooning college costs concurrent with gluts of worthless degrees, because universities are incentivized to enroll as many students as they can at as high a tuition rate as they can - they always get paid.

In system 3, the university only gets paid if the student's degree turns out to be marketable. It (hopefully) keeps costs down in a way the (1 & 2) cannot. On the other hand, this could be terrible news for departments that issue degrees in literature, anthropology, etc.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#182
post #5

Another sounds too good to be true because of just that. there are only the feel good details in the article and not the nitty gritty that is needed to even make it plausible. so, with regards to not paying it back if they don't land a job. how long are they held to that commitment? do we also look to see if they have another means of support? five years, ten, twenty? with regards to not paying up front, perhaps if w…

You don't pay anything back until you're making at least $50k a year. Not sure what the life of the contract is, but I've been following the Lambda school guys on Twitter for a while and they seem very focused on a 2-3 year payback. A lot of the criticism of Lambda School seems like unfairly comparing some ideal of education with their model, rather than comparing the current reality, which is colleges that frequentl…

> I'd be willing to bet for most of us, paying 17% of our income (once we made $50k) a year, for two years, is a vastly preferable to whatever we've paid.

Except the Lambda School ( I think it says in the article) is a 6-month program. If you're talking about paying for a four year degree, I think you have to multiply by 8 or so.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#183

It's jarring as an English speaker to see this North American usage of the word "tuition", as a fee rather than a service. It took a couple of seconds to parse the title.

Yes. It used to be called a "tuition fee". but people are lazy and don't know where their words come from.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#185

So you get an education for free, then pay back into the system after you're in the workforce? Congratulations, silicon valley, you've just re-invented public education! Imagine what our public universities could look like with solid funding increases (which would be a fraction of that 17% that this group wants to take). They could be both free and amazing.

Yeah, I feel like this model is a form of private taxes that is more ripe for abuse. Just do it bigger and more efficient (and with transparency and oversight) with public education.

What kind of abuse?

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#186
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if it’s anyones job to search for evidence for you or the parent.

It is, if you have any interest in convincing him otherwise, and successfully holding a conversation. If your goal is to argue aimlessly, and simply make your anti-claim with no new information (thereby convincing no one), then yes, you have no further tasks to be executed. But then you might as well have not spoken in the first place. Otherwise, all you’re claiming afaict is that the posters should argue with themse…

The "citation needed" type of response is also antagonistic in what is a discussion site rather than an academic paper.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#187
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> things which cannot be measured in next quarter. I'm all for long-term investments, but can these ever be measured? If not, it will take more than your claims to convince me that it's worth investing in. There are other ways to appreciate art and culture, such as visiting museums, reading books, watching documentaries or other youtube videos on these topics, etc. These are all free or much cheaper than a course in…

> There are other ways to appreciate art and culture, such as visiting museums, reading books, watching documentaries or other youtube videos on these topics, et And who becomes incharge of those museums? Who makes those documentaries and those books?

Someone not studying with taxpayer money.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#188
post #176
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> things which cannot be measured in next quarter. I'm all for long-term investments, but can these ever be measured? If not, it will take more than your claims to convince me that it's worth investing in. There are other ways to appreciate art and culture, such as visiting museums, reading books, watching documentaries or other youtube videos on these topics, etc. These are all free or much cheaper than a course in…

>There are other ways to appreciate art and culture, such as visiting museums, reading books, watching documentaries or other youtube videos on these topics, etc. These are all free or much cheaper than a course in a college. You haven't demonstrated how an academic setting is better and worth the cost. Academics is necessary to teach people how to create, understand and appreciate Art and Culture. People writing boo…

> Academics is necessary to teach people how to [...] understand and appreciate Art and Culture.

Any evidence in favor of that claim?

> If you think these skills can be obtained from reading books

I didn't say that nobody should study these fields; just that they needn't do so on taxpayer money.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#189
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, if you have any interest in convincing him otherwise, and successfully holding a conversation. If your goal is to argue aimlessly, and simply make your anti-claim with no new information (thereby convincing no one), then yes, you have no further tasks to be executed. But then you might as well have not spoken in the first place. Otherwise, all you’re claiming afaict is that the posters should argue with themse…

The "citation needed" type of response is also antagonistic in what is a discussion site rather than an academic paper.

I see where you're coming from, but it's good to impose the burden of proof on the person making the claim. If the person making the claim can't be bothered to dig up any supporting information, neither can others. It keeps the quality of discussion higher than otherwise.

One one or two occasions, when I was about to post something, I looked for evidence, and realised I was mistaken, and didn't mislead others.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are other ways to appreciate art and culture, such as visiting museums, reading books, watching documentaries or other youtube videos on these topics, et And who becomes incharge of those museums? Who makes those documentaries and those books?

Someone not studying with taxpayer money.

So rich pretencious snob becomes incharge of the culture?
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