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No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

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Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#171

Post by SamReidHughes »

drieddust wrote: post #131
nthot wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it stepped at all? Do you owe nothing before 50k and then once you cross that threshold you now owe money? That would seem to incentivise staying below that threshold for a percentage of borrowers. I also have difficulty seeing the first benefit you list as being a benefit. I don't have a problem with people pursuing degrees in fields that aren't big money makers, but I also don't know that the government should b…

> I also don't know that the government should be in the business of incentivising people to study in these fields That's interesting. So do you want government to only fund the vocational courses and allow the rich class to be the torch bearer in research, art, and culture because only they can afford it?

You do realize all the art and culture that matters is not government funded, right? It doesn't come out of universities.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#172

Post by setr »

puszczyk wrote: post #165
kartickv wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which doesn't provide the evidence the parent was looking for. Just because you take a variety of classes doesn't mean that they have a benefit. If they do, please give us the evidence.

Not sure if it’s anyones job to search for evidence for you or the parent.

It is, if you have any interest in convincing him otherwise, and successfully holding a conversation. If your goal is to argue aimlessly, and simply make your anti-claim with no new information (thereby convincing no one), then yes, you have no further tasks to be executed. But then you might as well have not spoken in the first place.

Otherwise, all you’re claiming afaict is that the posters should argue with themselves — find the counter-evidence to their own claims, which is likely sufficiently convincing that they would not have had any reason to speak in the first place.

That is, this idea of “not anyone’s job to search for (counter)evidence” is antagonistic to any form of discussion where parties disagree. If you want to make the opposing claim successfully, its quite useful to have evidence to support it (it’s not their job to find it for you... its not anyone’s job to do anything in an HN thread.)

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#173

Post by wahern »

elteto wrote: post #121
rland wrote: post #31

We're asking the wrong questions. A full semester at my local community college is under $1000. Extrapolating to four years of undergrad education, that's $8,000 total. WHY do we need this never ending whirlpool of sophisticated financial schemes to take care of this problem?

This might be the case for small community colleges but public universities are closer to $400 and $500 per credit hour. See [0] for an example. [0] https://www.collegetuitioncompare.com/compare/tables/?state=...

That data shows that most 4-year public colleges in Texas are less than $300/hour, with some less than $100/hour. The average is $238/hour. (From https://www.collegetuitioncompare.com/compare/tables/?state=...)

Most people tend to discount the cheap, unknown schools. But they're accredited, which means they provide a vetted curriculum and their degree satisfies prerequisites for higher degrees at other accredited institutions.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#174

Post by madiathomas »

atiredturte wrote: post #48

Australia has a system that, while different, has similar perks to this. We have a government loan system called HELP (formerly HECS). Basically students can get a zero interest government loan (rises with inflation), and only need to pay it off once they make above a certain threshold ($51,957 according to the official website[1]). The payments are deducted as a percentage of your income, with the payments increasin…

We also have the same system here in South Africa. It is called NSFAS(National Student Financial Aid System). It is government loan. If you pass all modules you registered, the whole loan used to be converted into a bursary as an incentive. Starting from 2018, education is now free for people who earn below a threshold of R350,000(~USD25,000) household income.

There is also a contingency plan for students who come from families with a household income of R600,000(USD 43,000) per annum.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#175

Post by zawerf »

austenallred wrote: post #76

Hey, co-founder of Lambda School here. Yes, some countries have similar structures, where you pay after a certain threshold. The difference is: 1. In those structures the school gets paid no matter what, the taxpayer just swallows the cost. With Lambda School we will literally go out of business if a large percentage of our students don't get jobs. That causes a lot of stuff. For example, we have an entire sales team…

Won't you be incentivized to prefer quantity over quality?

You can easily scale the number of classrooms by 2x but it isn't as easy to 2x the starting salary of your graduates.

The worry here is that you will over-focus on how to market/brand yourself to capture the salary of as many people transitioning to tech as possible, rather than helping individuals maximize their potential.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#176

Post by azemda »

_qjt0 wrote: post #163
drieddust wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not seeing the downside of only the rich being able to understand how Post-Impressionists like Suerat were different from Impressionists like Renoir. You are picking the edge case here. Art and culture are much more then just rich class's pretense. As far as wasting money is concerned, spending it just to create more replaceable cogs for capitalistic profit seeker is also a wasteful exercise. Why not ask the In…

> things which cannot be measured in next quarter. I'm all for long-term investments, but can these ever be measured? If not, it will take more than your claims to convince me that it's worth investing in. There are other ways to appreciate art and culture, such as visiting museums, reading books, watching documentaries or other youtube videos on these topics, etc. These are all free or much cheaper than a course in…

>There are other ways to appreciate art and culture, such as visiting museums, reading books, watching documentaries or other youtube videos on these topics, etc. These are all free or much cheaper than a course in a college. You haven't demonstrated how an academic setting is better and worth the cost.

Academics is necessary to teach people how to create, understand and appreciate Art and Culture. People writing books (not necessarily, but most probably) have a degree in Language and Literature, people creating documentaries have a degree in Film-making etc. If you think these skills can be obtained from reading books, watching videos on YouTube etc, then the same thing can be said about STEM fields as well.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#177

Post by nevdka »

voidlogic wrote: post #81
nthot wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it stepped at all? Do you owe nothing before 50k and then once you cross that threshold you now owe money? That would seem to incentivise staying below that threshold for a percentage of borrowers. I also have difficulty seeing the first benefit you list as being a benefit. I don't have a problem with people pursuing degrees in fields that aren't big money makers, but I also don't know that the government should b…

>That would seem to incentivise staying below that threshold for a percentage of borrowers. That only makes sense if its not implemented like taxes are. For example if when you exceed 50k and your repayment rate for the first 10k of income past 50k is 2%, and you earn 59k, you would take home $58,820. Why would you not want to take home this extra income. Is of course is assuming it works like taxes in the US (which…

Our taxes work the same way, but HECS repayments don't work the same way as tax. When you hit the threshold, you pay the percentage on your entire income, not just the income over the threshold. There are also multiple thresholds, so when you hit $57,730 you go from paying 2% of your total income to 4% of your total income. Personally, I've turned down overtime due to being just below one of the thresholds.

The repayment scheme is stupid.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#178

Post by leereeves »

voidhorse wrote: post #69
noetic_techy wrote: post #36

Good. This does exactly what Nasim Taleb argues and forces the college to have "skin in the game." Education needs this sort of revamp badly. Government meddling with student loan guarantees caused the price inflation, more government meddling won't solve the problem. The system needs a reboot, and this sounds like exactly what it needs. Don't pay unless you make over 50k, awesome. Payback lasts 2-3 years, awesome! I…

This "special butterfly edge case" == anyone who wants to specialize in the humanities attitude will probably lead to a bleak future. Life does not begin and end with technics nor economics. Supporting the continued interest in the historical, artistic, cultural, literary and philosophical development of mankind and likewise supporting the preservation of these fields shouldn't be seen as 'catering to those types'. I…

An Income Sharing Agreement (with a max tuition much higher than $30K) would be great for high-risk fields like the arts and humanities.

A percentage of earnings from a single George Lucas or JK Rowling would finance the school while the vast majority of students would pay nothing.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#179

Post by drieddust »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #171
drieddust wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also don't know that the government should be in the business of incentivising people to study in these fields That's interesting. So do you want government to only fund the vocational courses and allow the rich class to be the torch bearer in research, art, and culture because only they can afford it?

You do realize all the art and culture that matters is not government funded, right? It doesn't come out of universities.

Probably a lot of culture that gets attention is counter culture but that's does not happen in vaccum. In order to create the counter culture, one needs to learn the culture first. It can happen outside universities as well but that does not discount the importance of art and culture education.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#180

Post by drieddust »

_qjt0 wrote: post #163
drieddust wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not seeing the downside of only the rich being able to understand how Post-Impressionists like Suerat were different from Impressionists like Renoir. You are picking the edge case here. Art and culture are much more then just rich class's pretense. As far as wasting money is concerned, spending it just to create more replaceable cogs for capitalistic profit seeker is also a wasteful exercise. Why not ask the In…

> things which cannot be measured in next quarter. I'm all for long-term investments, but can these ever be measured? If not, it will take more than your claims to convince me that it's worth investing in. There are other ways to appreciate art and culture, such as visiting museums, reading books, watching documentaries or other youtube videos on these topics, etc. These are all free or much cheaper than a course in…

> There are other ways to appreciate art and culture, such as visiting museums, reading books, watching documentaries or other youtube videos on these topics, et

And who becomes incharge of those museums? Who makes those documentaries and those books?

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