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Meat-free 'Impossible Burger 2.0' tastes even closer to the real deal

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Re: Meat-free 'Impossible Burger 2.0' tastes even closer to the real deal

#471

Post by saagarjha »

newnewpdro wrote: post #465
saagarjha wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By simply avoiding consumption of chopped lettuce, a minimal amount of processing, one significantly reduced the probability they would be exposed to the e.coli. You seem to have an issue with globalization, not processing.

You seem to have an issue with reading comprehension, considering which sentence you specifically quoted. What does globalization have to do with chopping lettuce on an industrial scale that disperses pathogens across massive batches? It doesn't matter where the consolidated lettuce came from, the real problem is that it was processed. Furthermore, in the example I'm referencing, which was thoroughly covered in the U…

> You seem to have an issue with reading comprehension

I don't want to have to link to the site guidelines, since I'm sure you're aware that this isn't a particularly nice thing to say :/

> What does globalization have to do with chopping lettuce on an industrial scale that disperses pathogens across massive batches?

Chopping the lettuce had nothing to do with E. Coli getting in it; the problem was that the lettuce came into contact with it after being picked. The reason why it ended up getting to a lot of people was because of improvements in transportation and preservation allowing it to be distributed further, not because it was processed.

Re: Meat-free 'Impossible Burger 2.0' tastes even closer to the real deal

#472

Post by saagarjha »

nonbel wrote: post #457
saagarjha wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But my main concern is the aspect of "tricking" the brain into thinking it is consuming beef by mimicking the texture and taste (which is their goal) but instead consuming something with different nutritional value. Does the "brain" (which I am specifically using in a biological sense, because it seems like that's what you meant instead of "people in general") actually care about texture and taste when consuming fo…

> "Does the "brain" (which I am specifically using in a biological sense, because it seems like that's what you meant instead of "people in general") actually care about texture and taste when consuming food?" Yes... haven't you ever eaten food and liked/disliked the texture/taste based on what you expected? > "I don't see how this could be dangerous, except if people somehow eat a dozen of these and nothing else and…

> Yes... haven't you ever eaten food and liked/disliked the texture/taste based on what you expected?

Yes, but that doesn't "trick" me into changing the nutritional value of the food.

Re: Meat-free 'Impossible Burger 2.0' tastes even closer to the real deal

#473

Post by nonbel »

saagarjha wrote: post #472
nonbel wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Does the "brain" (which I am specifically using in a biological sense, because it seems like that's what you meant instead of "people in general") actually care about texture and taste when consuming food?" Yes... haven't you ever eaten food and liked/disliked the texture/taste based on what you expected? > "I don't see how this could be dangerous, except if people somehow eat a dozen of these and nothing else and…

> Yes... haven't you ever eaten food and liked/disliked the texture/taste based on what you expected? Yes, but that doesn't "trick" me into changing the nutritional value of the food.

The "trick" is occurring when the impossible burger is indistinguishable to your senses from a real burger.

You are not changing anything about the nutritional value, but your body will release leptin, insulin, salivia, etc as if it did have the nutritional value of a burger. This is bound to lead to some kind of problem, the only question is how big.

Take it to the extreme of something that is totally undigestible cardboard with zero nutritional value, but is impossible to distinguish via any senses from a beef patty. Do you not think consuming this will cause issues for people?

Re: Meat-free 'Impossible Burger 2.0' tastes even closer to the real deal

#474

Post by brandonjm »

robotbikes wrote: post #410
nonbel wrote: post #406

These burgers are not a suitable nutritional replacement for beef. Beef contains cholesterol, zero carbs, and has a different vitamin/mineral profile. This stuff has no cholesterol and (a small amount of) carbs while also containing way more salt, thiamine (vitamin B1), and folate (vitamin B9): https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/6205/2 http://livablefutureblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/impo... FY…

That is interesting but I don't think that it would be healthy for people to eat beef burgers as their primary source of nutrition either. What annoys me about the fake meat is that in the dystopian future soymeat was supposed to be everywhere and cheaper where real meat was a sought after expensive delicacy but due to government subsidies and hding the costs of environmental externalities real meat remains much chea…

If humans were forced to start eating "dystopian future soymeat" and stop eating meat, I'm sure it would become far cheaper as it becomes more readily available. As it stands currently, most humans do eat meat so it is cheaper than a heavily researched niche alternative which has taken years to become remotely comparable to real meat.

Re: Meat-free 'Impossible Burger 2.0' tastes even closer to the real deal

#475

Post by null000 »

white-flame wrote: post #381
puranjay wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love meat but I've always struggled to reconcile my love of eating it with my love of animals. I would be happy to pay a premium if it meant I could get meat-like taste without the guilt

Consider that killing a living thing to eat its body is not unique to "meat", nor is raising it in a controlled environment for the purpose of consumption. Fish (as is sometimes classified separately) and vegetables are living things raised and killed for consumption of their bodies as well. I believe reconciling all of these as ethically equal (including raising the ethical weight of killing a plant as equal to an a…

Suggesting that there's enough ambiguity for it to be reasonable to assume ferns exist on the same level of consciousness or understanding of the world around them as cows is a bit of a weak argument. There's a pretty obvious difference between the two, and even if you believe plants can experience pain or distress in a meaningful way, it still makes way more sense to kill a carrot over a pig if you have the choice, making the two very clearly not morally equivalent.

Re: Meat-free 'Impossible Burger 2.0' tastes even closer to the real deal

#476

Post by surfmike »

l9k wrote: post #375
surfmike wrote: post #371

The best fake meat patties I've ever had were the veggie patties ("Soul burger") at Hero burger in Canada. My wife (who is vegetarian) thought it was real at first and was upset they had made a mistake and had me try, and I also thought it was real. But it was actually vegetarian!

So how did you make sure they weren't meat? That's a problem I would see for vegetarian. That mostly involves trust. A similar scenario already happens with halal and kosher food though.

Well, I've had them many times since and just as good... So either this burger chain is fraudulently selling meat patties as tofu veggie, or they're legit.

Re: Meat-free 'Impossible Burger 2.0' tastes even closer to the real deal

#477

Post by mikekchar »

scrumbledober wrote: post #227
dashundchen wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I eat plant-based and don't know what bone broth tastes like, but I assume very savory from the others descriptions When I want to cook savory foods, there's certain things you can look to: 1. Miso pastes. There's several kinds but in a regular American grocery with international sections you'll usually find a mild white miso and a slightly more pungent red one. Both are usually savory. I am sure Chinese and Japanese…

are you telling me all miso pastes aren't savory? I love cooking with miso and if there is a world of non-savory miso out there that I'm blind to I would be very excited.

Not the OP, but while all miso is savoury you can mix it with a variety of different things. Some miso sauces in Japan have a lot of sugar in them and I've even had miso ice cream. It's very good.

Re: Meat-free 'Impossible Burger 2.0' tastes even closer to the real deal

#478

Post by craftyguy »

cies wrote: post #383
tim333 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The devil's in the details. Because some processed food is bad doesn't mean it all it.

In this case it certainly looses from straight up beans or lentils. It will straight up win from a regular burger though. Talking health here. Nothing to back it up, just common sense about cholesterol and different fats.

I think the above argument is based on environmental impact: processed meat vs processed veggie thing to look like mean

Both require, well, processing. I would assume the meat one requires more energy to make.

Re: Meat-free 'Impossible Burger 2.0' tastes even closer to the real deal

#480

Post by mikekchar »

puranjay wrote: post #182
mrspeaker wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm more excited about where they go after they get passed the "uncanny valley of meat". If they can nail it, they'll get bored and move on to new and weirder flavors and textures. Hook it up to Watson and you don't just get new recipes, but they're combined with new meat! ( https://www.bonappetit.com/entertaining-style/trends-news/ar... )

I wonder if they can somehow replicate the flavor in bones. I'd love to make stock or a stew, but so much of the "meaty" flavor comes from bones

I originally learned to cook by going through the entire "Mastering the Art of French Cooking" (it took me 3 years). Later in life I was completely broke and had to give up either meat or beer. I chose to give up meat :-) Even later in life I figured I might as well go whole hog (hmm???) and become vegan. I learned how to cook again.

My biggest piece of advice for anyone wanting to learn how to cook really good vegetable based meals (and who doesn't want to adopt an already established ethnic vegan diet) is to forget ingredients and instead focus on techniques. Cooking is applied chemistry. You need to understand why certain foods and certain preparations give certain results. You can then replicate similar results.

It's not so much that you want to imitate the "meaty" flavour of beef bones, but rather that you want to create a similarly satisfying broth. If you try to imitate an existing food, you will always end up with a pale shadow of that food. Instead make something that has the same value, but with a different ingredient. It will be different just like chicken stock is different from beef stock which is different than lamb stock which is different than pork stock. But it will be just as good.

For stocks, it's complicated because vegetables are sweet. You want umami for stocks. As much as possible keep the sweetness out of the stock (because it will get in there no matter what you do). Fermented proteins (miso as others have said -- but make sure to get the oldest you can find), beans/lentils, rice, etc. Stay away from things like a mirepoix because it will add too much sweetness. You can add onions, but caramelise them down to being black, etc, etc. To be honest, there is too much to making a good stock to explain here. You just need to practice and adjust until you get what you are looking for. Learning an ethnic cuisine that is already traditionally vegan will help a lot if you pay attention to the techniques they are using. At the same time consider what a bone stock is doing in a stock pot. What is meat? What is connective tissue? What is skin? What is marrow? What happens when you simmer that for 5 hours?

You can make great vegan stocks and it is fun to learn how to do it, but it takes an inventive spirit.

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