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The unlikely resurgence of Dungeons and Dragons

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Re: The unlikely resurgence of Dungeons and Dragons

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All the RPG market needed was one publisher with good production values and broad distribution to . Wizards was happy to oblige... I think you can make a very good case that D&D 4e in 2008 was where they decided to “discard a big chunk of its worst, thorniest rules”, and that the big innovation in 5e, released in 2014, was less about discarding thorny rules and more about reconnecting the streamlined rules with the…

It's not just that. 4e greatly simplified the rules, which made it far more accessible and playable, but it made many classes feel very much the same; every class had daily powers, encounter powers, and at-will powers. 5e managed to make every class feel unique again, and brought many of the classic D&D players back.

> 4e greatly simplified the rules, which made it far more accessible and playable

I think it made it more playable as as an abstract combat game, but the divorce in presentation between the rules and the in-game fiction (particularly acute in the—albeit streamlined, simple, and consistent—way powers were defined) made it less accessible as a RPG in the deeper RP sense usually associated with TTRPGS as opposed to CRPGs.

For that, rule simplicity helps, but equally important is keeping mechanical actions grounded in the fictional world rather than abstracted from it.

And I think that's the unique strength of TTRPGs in a world awash in digital entertainment.

5e wasn't, IMO, in net a mechanical streamlining compared to 4e. It may have even made things a little more complex as an abstract game. But the presentation and the tie between the rules and the fiction was improved (and, as you note, things like class choices were given enough more weight in how characters played as to be more mechanically interesting.)

Incidentally, I'm one of the players of most previous versions of D&D (starting with B/X, missed OD&D, but played everything else) that it brought back to being a fan.

Re: The unlikely resurgence of Dungeons and Dragons

#102
post #96

My friends and I play D&D because we have no real other option. We used to play Minecraft and other collaborative building games as a group, but then one in our group went fully blind. There is a complete lack of good multiplayer computer games for entirely blind players (admittedly that is quite a challenge), but D&D requires only imagination, which all of us still have. Highly recommend if you have friends with vis…

Losing one's imagination seems more common than losing one's sight. :(

That sounds like a good thing to me. It would be unfortunate if going blind was more common

Re: The unlikely resurgence of Dungeons and Dragons

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All the RPG market needed was one publisher with good production values and broad distribution to . Wizards was happy to oblige... I think you can make a very good case that D&D 4e in 2008 was where they decided to “discard a big chunk of its worst, thorniest rules”, and that the big innovation in 5e, released in 2014, was less about discarding thorny rules and more about reconnecting the streamlined rules with the…

4e wasn't “discard[ing] a big chunk of its worst, thorniest rules”, it was a re-write to sell splat books and accessories, to try and turn it into pen and paper World of Warcraft, and make it a miniature focused expensive game. It failed. It was D&D in name only and an abomination to those who really cared about it. 5e was the streamlining and modularization that was needed so you could play it like it was 2e, or 3e/…

My biggest complaints about 5e are illusion magic rules and the lack of more core classes. I look forward to more source books for different planes in the future, but I can make do without those right now.

Re: The unlikely resurgence of Dungeons and Dragons

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just that. 4e greatly simplified the rules, which made it far more accessible and playable, but it made many classes feel very much the same; every class had daily powers, encounter powers, and at-will powers. 5e managed to make every class feel unique again, and brought many of the classic D&D players back.

this a big point about 4e i recall more than a few pre 4th edition game circles that degenrated into pouring over books and arguing about the rules. wHEN I dm there are modifications to the rules that make more fun. for example sometimes characters dont "die" they meet thier maker and discover something about themselves or the deep lore of the campain world you have made, and then you can recycle them as if ressurect…

Can you explain the story mechanics of the “resurrection”? Is it more like the player is forced to switch PCs on death?

Re: The unlikely resurgence of Dungeons and Dragons

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just that. 4e greatly simplified the rules, which made it far more accessible and playable, but it made many classes feel very much the same; every class had daily powers, encounter powers, and at-will powers. 5e managed to make every class feel unique again, and brought many of the classic D&D players back.

> 4e greatly simplified the rules, which made it far more accessible and playable I think it made it more playable as as an abstract combat game, but the divorce in presentation between the rules and the in-game fiction (particularly acute in the—albeit streamlined, simple, and consistent—way powers were defined) made it less accessible as a RPG in the deeper RP sense usually associated with TTRPGS as opposed to CRPG…

I do agree with that entirely. Our 4e group threw out half the explicit rules and did a lot of improvising.

One of 5e's greatest strengths was explicitly telling the DM how and when to wing it and improvise, rather than giving a rule for everything. The 5e DM's guide tells you that you can skip the encumbrance rules, that you can just give a level after every session or two rather than counting XP, that you don't need to do as many combat encounters if your players like story more, and spells out how to make new monsters.

Re: The unlikely resurgence of Dungeons and Dragons

#106
post #50

Is it unlikely? Board games were already growing fast. Even CCGs were growing fast, not only through video games but still as physical games too. People want to sit down and get offline and spend time with each other, _and_ people who used to do that want to get online and hang out with each other. All the RPG market needed was one publisher with good production values and broad distribution to discard a big chunk of…

Speaking of CCG's, any collectors who happen to be coders? I haven't met too many at the local shops I stop by so I always figured collecting cards wasn't very popular amongst engineers.

My company has a number of MTG players at our office. We've done a number of booster box drafts, and one co-worker even ordered a proxied Vintage cube online so we can draft whenever we want without needing to buy new boxes (plus, it's the only chance the younger people like me will ever get a chance to play with stuff from the first few sets that are now way too expensive to actually play with even if you are willing to shell out the money)

Re: The unlikely resurgence of Dungeons and Dragons

#107
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this a big point about 4e i recall more than a few pre 4th edition game circles that degenrated into pouring over books and arguing about the rules. wHEN I dm there are modifications to the rules that make more fun. for example sometimes characters dont "die" they meet thier maker and discover something about themselves or the deep lore of the campain world you have made, and then you can recycle them as if ressurect…

Can you explain the story mechanics of the “resurrection”? Is it more like the player is forced to switch PCs on death?

no not switching PCs unless you like. suppose a character "dies" they have an afterdeathexperience, a fireside chat with god so to speak. and are told some things about why the world exists the way it does, why the PC is so special, and perhaps a deal is made with a deity of some sort to fix the world [carry out the dietys plans] and they are ressurected perhaps as per the ressurection spell? or better/worse having a deity holding a debt against you, but having interst in keeping you going?

Re: The unlikely resurgence of Dungeons and Dragons

#108

Paradoxically, tech has actually made DnD much more accessible to the masses. When my friends and I first started playing 3.5 in middle school, we pooled our money for a single player's handbook (they were pricey back then!) and would constantly be passing it around any time anyone needed to do anything, which really slowed down the pace of the game and made it hard to get intimately familiar with the rules. Eventual…

Paradoxically, DnD actually made tech much more accessible to me.

weather generation was the impetus of my first programs on a Vic 20

Re: The unlikely resurgence of Dungeons and Dragons

#109

My interest was rekindled by the Acquisitions Incorporated Podcasts with Chris Perkins and Penny Arcade.

It is kinda criminal that they are overlooked in this article. Some genuinely hilarious content in these videos.

http://www.acq-inc.com/portfolio/category/live-show

Re: The unlikely resurgence of Dungeons and Dragons

#110
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FWIW: Pathfinder didn't win because it didn't have the name. The game itself is fine. But there can be only one D&D, and once WotC managed to figure out that the edition upgrade mill was a death trap and released a streamlined 5e, there wasn't much niche left for Pathfinder to fill. 5e was the second D&D edition released after Pathfinder, so I'm not really sure what “edition upgrade mill” you are talking about. > (…

OMG, we're actually having an edition war on HN! D&D really has broken through! Pathfinder beat 4e to market in a technical sense, but it absolutely exists because WotC announced it was moving away from 3.5e and the OGL with a new edition. Paizo never intended to release it to compete directly with 3.5, and it would have been insane to do so.

> OMG, we're actually having an edition war on HN! D&D really has broken through!

Are we? The disagreements seem to be about details of why various editions succeeded or failed, not about their superiority.

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