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A Guide for Adults Going to College

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Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#191

Post by foldr »

lol768 wrote: post #146
foldr wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For some staff, teaching is clearly something they _have_ to do and effort is put in appropriately. Well yes, of course. People don't go into academia because they want to teach. Academics are also not rewarded significantly for good teaching.

>Well yes, of course. People don't go into academia because they want to teach. Academics are also not rewarded significantly for good teaching. When student tuition fees make up the bulk of a department's income, is this reasonable and fair to students? Are they getting value for money? Some institutions have separate teaching and research promotion tracks mapped to equivalent salary grades.

> When student tuition fees make up the bulk of a department's income, is this reasonable and fair to students? Are they getting value for money?

It's difficult to say, isn't it? How does one determine how much a university education "should" cost?

I don't see any easy solution. If we convert research-focused universities into teaching-focused institutions, what happens to the research? If we create new and separate teaching-focused institutions, who pays?

Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#192

Post by BigChiefSmokem »

twblalock wrote: post #98
two2two wrote: post #63

I'm a returning student about to complete my degree at the end of this year. I went to an art school for a few years out of high school and ended up in customer service positions with some great companies. I didn't want to continue in customer service, so I decided to go back to school. Started with two years at community college, and now finishing up my last two at university. Some insights I picked up along the way…

I did my first few years of college at a community college and my experience was that the college had to be very strict about attendance and dropping students who didn't show up. Frankly a lot of them were stoners who were only in school because their parents would cut off support if they dropped out. The professors were underpaid and many of them didn't care -- some did care and were excellent teachers, but a lot of…

This sounds like you went to a bad and busy city college in a big city. I for example went to a community college in Tallahassee, FL and it was fantastic and better than the university there, which was run amok with scandal and politics with the local community, something typical of these major college towns.

Everyone has an anecdote.

Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#193

Post by foldr »

BeetleB wrote: post #116
foldr wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For some staff, teaching is clearly something they _have_ to do and effort is put in appropriately. Well yes, of course. People don't go into academia because they want to teach. Academics are also not rewarded significantly for good teaching.

And "of course", this is one argument not to go to a top ranked research university for undergrad. BTW, the low ranked university I went to was a research university. Professors got tenure/promotions based on that and not based on teaching. They still cared about teaching. It is at some level a matter of culture. If a top ranked university is worse when it comes to teaching, the reality is the university doesn't valu…

The point is that you can't expect academics to necessarily love or enjoy teaching, as they're not selected for that trait. Of course people should do their jobs to an acceptable standard. But expecting academics to routinely do more than that is expecting something you wouldn't expect of people in other professions. Do you expect your accountant to do your accounts with enthusiasm?

Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#194

Post by ggm »

lkrubner wrote: post #66

Recently on Hacker News there was a top voted article in which the economist Nassim Nicolas Taleb made the point that a lot of small bets have a higher expected value than one very large bet. But the argument has interesting implications for education. The same reasoning implies that 4 degrees of 1 year should have more payoff to society than 1 degree of 4 years. Likewise, society would benefit more if you got 12 deg…

Taleb's insight applies where there is no linkage between bets.

The problem is, a 4 year degree "if done right" is building on a body of knowledge. you can't "do" year 4 without the core competencies in years 1,2 and 3.

So, (and I admit I didn't read your article) I ask if you address the neccessary linkage problem.

Because a chain of 4 small bets is what we call a quinella or trifecta, and in betting circles its high payoff, but low likelihood: It may be better to commit to the whole big package than assume you can bite of chunks and always get the same value.

A midpoint model, is to do 1 or 2 years, get a low degree, then do 2 or 3 more and specialize for a high degree.

Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#195

Post by radlad »

twblalock wrote: post #98
two2two wrote: post #63

I'm a returning student about to complete my degree at the end of this year. I went to an art school for a few years out of high school and ended up in customer service positions with some great companies. I didn't want to continue in customer service, so I decided to go back to school. Started with two years at community college, and now finishing up my last two at university. Some insights I picked up along the way…

I did my first few years of college at a community college and my experience was that the college had to be very strict about attendance and dropping students who didn't show up. Frankly a lot of them were stoners who were only in school because their parents would cut off support if they dropped out. The professors were underpaid and many of them didn't care -- some did care and were excellent teachers, but a lot of…

I only went to a community college, but my experience is fairly similar to yours. I was lucky that the community college (Washtenaw Community College) was in a city with a decent university (University of Michigan). As such, many of the professors worked at both. These were the best professors.

Similarly, there were many professors who did not care at all. However, my girlfriend is currently attending the Ohio State University as a medical student, and similarly many professors either (a) do not care about their students or whether they are effectively teaching them material, or (b) have too many students and are unable to effectively teach them all.

While I attended some classes at the community college that had 150+ students (less than her largest classes, to be fair), those professors actually were some of the best I had. Maybe I just got lucky.

FWIW, she also attended Eastern Michigan University and Washtenaw Community College (with me) prior to this. The community college was her favorite.

In any case, there are plenty of skills I'd like to learn, or learn more about (e.g. mechanical skills, art skills, etc.) and without a doubt I would choose a community college -- and research my professors! -- over a university. In either case, you should pick your professors carefully; but the price difference (even on a software engineer's salary) is simply not worth going to a university IMO.

Don't forget that money spent at the beginning of your career is worth more than money spent at the end! (Assuming you're investing well.) Compounding interest and all.

Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#196

Post by gnulinux »

I want to go back to school. I graduated undergrad in 3 years so even though I have a Bachelor's in CS, I still feel half-baked. I studied CS only because I freaking love it and learning more is my utter passion. I want to have a graduate degree in CS... but how? I have a job, I have other stuff to do now, and taking an almost decade investment sounds way too much (in US PhDs can take very long). I'm a very socially awkward dude and spending my entire 20s in PhD almost seems socially "risky". Did someone else have experience on this matter? I have otherwise have the funds and passion to pursue this.

Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#197

Post by barry-cotter »

ddoolin wrote: post #180
barry-cotter wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have multiple years professional experience in programming. You can probably get onto the Oxford M.Sc. in Software Engineering but the deadline is soon. If you miss it the next one is in March. https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/courses/msc-softwar... Applicants are normaly expected to be predicted or have achieved a first-class or strong upper second-class undergraduate degree with honours (or equivalent i…

That sounds like a really fascinating course to take, and I'm tempted to apply just to see how I fare. The cost is a bit out of my reach if I'm being honest. I do make very good money but I also spend good on two children, rent in California, etc. Thank you for sharing this with me.

In that case you’re probably better off asking how hard it would be to get onto the Georgia Tech Online Master of Computer Science at

www.reddit.com/r/omscs

The Master’s itself costs less than $10K still but you’d need to do enough undergraduate courses to have credits sufficient for a Bachelor’s, though I don’t think you actually need to be awarded one. So if I remember right you’d need to do a year’s worth of coursework towards a Bachelor’s and then you’d be admittable. Not sure though, ask in the subreddit.

Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#198

Post by darpa_escapee »

bsder wrote: post #189
twblalock wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did my first few years of college at a community college and my experience was that the college had to be very strict about attendance and dropping students who didn't show up. Frankly a lot of them were stoners who were only in school because their parents would cut off support if they dropped out. The professors were underpaid and many of them didn't care -- some did care and were excellent teachers, but a lot of…

> The professors were underpaid and many of them didn't care -- some did care and were excellent teachers, but a lot of them were bitter about their career outcomes and just went through the motions. Given how little it pays to teach in a community college, I'm surprised there is any teacher who didn't care.

This was my experience. I started in a community college, and my professors were there after retiring from industry, so they had little use for the meager salary they earned. The other professors worked at nearby universities, as well.

They genuinely liked to teach and loved it when they could get their students to care about a subject as much as they did themselves. You could tell they did it out of passion, and moreover, for the students.

Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#199

Post by pure_ambition »

gnulinux wrote: post #196

I want to go back to school. I graduated undergrad in 3 years so even though I have a Bachelor's in CS, I still feel half-baked. I studied CS only because I freaking love it and learning more is my utter passion. I want to have a graduate degree in CS... but how? I have a job, I have other stuff to do now, and taking an almost decade investment sounds way too much (in US PhDs can take very long). I'm a very socially…

Follow your inner voice. Sounds like it’s telling you to look seriously at grad school. Most people I find will tell you to not do it, but I say go for it. Don’t worry about the social risk; it’s just because you’re outside of the academic sphere right now.

Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#200

Post by danellis »

I've often wondered, is there a way to get a reputable CS degree that leverages a couple of decades of work experience to make the process shorter? The article says so in the general case, but what about specifically for CS?
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