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Mozilla Announces Deal to Bring Firefox Reality to HTC VIVE Devices

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Mozilla Announces Deal to Bring Firefox Reality to HTC VIVE Devices

#41

Smart move on Mozilla's part to start working on VR. The desktop browser space has been saturated for so long, but making a bet on a new space might help them get a toehold on a whole new world. This doesn't mean they are not focused on desktop, but strategically this is a solid bed that may or may not pay off, but will be key for long-term survival. EDIT: plus having commercial sponsors for the eventual Servo-in-VR…

While you're correct in your assessment, and I hope this comes to fruition, this same paragraph could have been written about Firefox OS. That said, I'm not a detractor, I wish Firefox OS had also worked out. And I'm certainly very glad that Mozilla is still willing to approach new ideas and markets, even after getting burnt.

Re: Mozilla Announces Deal to Bring Firefox Reality to HTC VIVE Devices

#42
I don’t know. They maybe hope they’ll be first on the next big thing which they think is VR. But who knows if VR is going to be big, who knows if it needs a browser and what keeps chrome from eating the cake anyways after Firefox has scoped out the territory.

I think this is a very risky bet unless they make net money on this which they can funnel into more promising projects.

Re: Mozilla Announces Deal to Bring Firefox Reality to HTC VIVE Devices

#43
post #21

But, why?

I'm going to offer a different explanation, but first, the standard one: Mozilla doesn't want to miss a paradigm shift, especially one where the only players currently in it are very proprietary. They learned their lesson with mobile.

One thing that many of us, myself included, are very excited about regarding the Servo/WebRender/Quantum projects is the ability for a fast, parallel web rendering engine to open new possibilities, such as how V8's JIT significantly pushed the envelope of what was possible. Now that JavaScript is acceptably fast, and we have WebAssembly for cases where control over memory layout is necessary, network speeds are the bottleneck of most applications. WebRender's big concept of rendering the entire web at "maximum FPS" is pretty awesome, but it's not pushing the envelope by itself, since framework and application developers have been treating "minimize DOM manipulation" as an important optimization. There's clearly potential with WebRender, but if a majority of used webpages are already rendering at an adequate framerate due to framework-level optimizations (and prior browser optimizations like Electrolysis and Stylo), it may be viewed as superfluous, despite potentially huge advantages.

I think the research in this direction is beneficial, and as a result, I'd like the Servo project to be allowed to continue developing cool stuff. As Servo won't replace Gecko in Firefox, it needs to try more challenging tasks to continue to push its envelope. WebRender has a ton of potential in the WebVR space, since a Web Components-based VR system would rely heavily on a performant DOM. Such a project would push Servo to continue development in preparation for a more functional future web.

Re: Mozilla Announces Deal to Bring Firefox Reality to HTC VIVE Devices

#44
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because both AR and VR still have the possibility of enormous growth.

Mozilla as an organization these days seems to be hunting for that one trick that will let them magically become big again. I don't want a trick. I want a good web browser. From its beginning, Firefox got popular because it was just a good web browser, not because of any gimmick. If anything, it was the lack of gimmicks that made it good. Unlike previous Mozilla products, it was just the browser. I'd be curious to se…

Why do you consider a VR browser to be a gimmick? And why is this announcement not relevant to building a "good web browser"? They want to build a good web browser for VR, as well as mobile, desktop, and any other platforms which are relevant today and hopefully tomorrow. Perhaps you are only interested in the desktop version, but it's still probably in their best interests to develop browsers for other upcoming markets. Were you also upset that they spent valuable resources building an Android version?

Re: Mozilla Announces Deal to Bring Firefox Reality to HTC VIVE Devices

#45
post #27

Smart move on Mozilla's part to start working on VR. The desktop browser space has been saturated for so long, but making a bet on a new space might help them get a toehold on a whole new world. This doesn't mean they are not focused on desktop, but strategically this is a solid bed that may or may not pay off, but will be key for long-term survival. EDIT: plus having commercial sponsors for the eventual Servo-in-VR…

In particular, Firefox Reality is just a consumer of GeckoView. Working on Firefox Reality has beneficial effects on Gecko's general ability to be embedded.

Embedding in other Android apps is not really what we expect in general by being embeddable. Servo for instance is easy to embed since you just need to provide it a GL context and feed it events. This is far from being the case with Gecko unfortunately. Chromium is pretty good also especially with the Ozone layer.

Re: Mozilla Announces Deal to Bring Firefox Reality to HTC VIVE Devices

#46

Smart move on Mozilla's part to start working on VR. The desktop browser space has been saturated for so long, but making a bet on a new space might help them get a toehold on a whole new world. This doesn't mean they are not focused on desktop, but strategically this is a solid bed that may or may not pay off, but will be key for long-term survival. EDIT: plus having commercial sponsors for the eventual Servo-in-VR…

While you're correct in your assessment, and I hope this comes to fruition, this same paragraph could have been written about Firefox OS. That said, I'm not a detractor, I wish Firefox OS had also worked out. And I'm certainly very glad that Mozilla is still willing to approach new ideas and markets, even after getting burnt.

The FirefoxOS legacy is alive in KaiOS which has 50M+ users now and is growing. Indeed a very poor decision from Mozilla's leadership to kill the effort too soon.

Re: Mozilla Announces Deal to Bring Firefox Reality to HTC VIVE Devices

#47
post #10

Why would they deal with HTC and not just Steam in general. I have had Vive since day 1. I am never touching anything HTC again. I'm happy enough with the device and technology I have- but the HTC software is horrendous and there's no place for it. I've heard just horror story after horror story of HTC customer service / repair, wanting $200 for a new controller etc. Vive Pro is a complete joke, in price. HTC hasn't…

You might notice HTC Vive seems to be distancing themselves from Steam, including focusing pretty much entirely on their own Viveport platform. Though I'm not sure why, that seems to be the mentality behind their current direction.

HTC Vive is focusing on Viveport for the same reason Epic, Ubisoft, and Oculus have: They want to take the sales away from Steam. We are watching the same thing happening with Netflix verses every television company (CBS, HBO, etc) making their own streaming service fiefdom. Netflix and Steam beat the other companies for distribution by years and they don't like that. Re-fragmentation.

Re: Mozilla Announces Deal to Bring Firefox Reality to HTC VIVE Devices

#48
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In particular, Firefox Reality is just a consumer of GeckoView. Working on Firefox Reality has beneficial effects on Gecko's general ability to be embedded.

Embedding in other Android apps is not really what we expect in general by being embeddable. Servo for instance is easy to embed since you just need to provide it a GL context and feed it events. This is far from being the case with Gecko unfortunately. Chromium is pretty good also especially with the Ozone layer.

From what I've heard, it's not an Android-exclusive effort, and eventually Gecko will become embeddable again on desktop too. Camino Resurrection anyone? :)

Re: Mozilla Announces Deal to Bring Firefox Reality to HTC VIVE Devices

#49

Smart move on Mozilla's part to start working on VR. The desktop browser space has been saturated for so long, but making a bet on a new space might help them get a toehold on a whole new world. This doesn't mean they are not focused on desktop, but strategically this is a solid bed that may or may not pay off, but will be key for long-term survival. EDIT: plus having commercial sponsors for the eventual Servo-in-VR…

While you're correct in your assessment, and I hope this comes to fruition, this same paragraph could have been written about Firefox OS. That said, I'm not a detractor, I wish Firefox OS had also worked out. And I'm certainly very glad that Mozilla is still willing to approach new ideas and markets, even after getting burnt.

The Firefox Reality team is much smaller than the FirefoxOS team was (i.e., by more than an order of magnitude).

Re: Mozilla Announces Deal to Bring Firefox Reality to HTC VIVE Devices

#50
post #21

But, why?

I'm going to offer a different explanation, but first, the standard one: Mozilla doesn't want to miss a paradigm shift, especially one where the only players currently in it are very proprietary. They learned their lesson with mobile. One thing that many of us, myself included, are very excited about regarding the Servo/WebRender/Quantum projects is the ability for a fast, parallel web rendering engine to open new po…

WR doesn't help much with DOM update related issues, WR comes into play after that, when it's pixel time. WR is pushing the envelope for creative (ab)use of DOM elements as graphics primitives, like in that spinning cubes demo :) but on a more serious note, leveraging the GPU makes a lot of sense because it's been sitting there mostly unused (only used for layer compositing) when browsing, and it's more efficient at graphics operations.

That said, Servo itself has a fresh DOM implementation and I think there was work on making it really fast.

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