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No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

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Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#21

Post by jerf »

chrisamiller wrote: post #6

So you get an education for free, then pay back into the system after you're in the workforce? Congratulations, silicon valley, you've just re-invented public education! Imagine what our public universities could look like with solid funding increases (which would be a fraction of that 17% that this group wants to take). They could be both free and amazing.

"Imagine what our public universities could look like with solid funding increases"

The reason we're having this conversation in the first place is precisely the "funding increases" they've been experiencing. If this isn't enough "funding increase" for them: https://rpreschern.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/college-tuiti... then I'd have to suggest "funding" is not their problem. What they'd look like with "solid funding increases" is pretty much what you're seeing right now.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#23

Post by ivalm »

mcherm wrote: post #7
mdasen wrote: post #3

How is this different from income-based repayment of federal student loans? While there are different programs, the general idea is that you pay 10% of your "discretionary" income for 20 years with the guarantee that your payments aren't higher than the 10-year payoff rate. The article doesn't really have information on the Purdue system other than saying that it might cost high-earning students 250% of the price of…

> The big issue is for universities is how they would handle marriage. I don't see why this is an issue at all. If the college claims that "finding the high-income person you will marry" is one of the reasons to attend that college, then they should please return to the 1950s (or earlier!). If they DON'T, then the repayment should be based on the individual's income, regardless of their spouse's income. Does this mea…

Except this leads to an incentive for sexist bias in admission since women still dominate the "stay at home spouse" category. Finally, especially for undergrad, many DO go there for general education/becoming more worldly, even if they have no intention of joining the workforce.

When a couple marries, I think they should realize that they are to face the world together, and this means repayment of educational expenses of both partners.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#24

Post by gigatexal »

mdasen wrote: post #3

How is this different from income-based repayment of federal student loans? While there are different programs, the general idea is that you pay 10% of your "discretionary" income for 20 years with the guarantee that your payments aren't higher than the 10-year payoff rate. The article doesn't really have information on the Purdue system other than saying that it might cost high-earning students 250% of the price of…

Because when the loan is forgiven after 20 years it looks like income. So you have to pay tax on your forgiven loan. If Lambda School can’t teach you well enough that you get and keep a good paying job then they take the loss not the tax payer.

Also: advocating for keeping the old system by saying this new way is not different is the least Hacker News things I’ve ever heard. The student loan crisis is an existential crisis for America. More schools should adopt the Lambda School approach, America would be much better off.

The current model is no different to unscrupulous bankers selling loans to Wall Street or Fannie Mae: they just lure students to the school helping them fill out student aid and loans and then give them subpar educations with curriculum being taught like it has been for years but they don’t care to change or innovate because the school has already been paid by an entity — the US education department who has deep pockets.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#25

Post by zeroname »

soham wrote: post #19
austenallred wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a word: incentives. It’s not about the payment structure alone, it’s about a school that is incentivized to make its students successful. IBR is just taxpayers swallowing the bill when schools fail.

But then such schools that predominantly work on ISAs, will pre-select for good students, who are most likely to succeed and also for industries where the compensation is higher. Remainder (which is arguably 90%+) of the students will still be at the mercy of other schools + taxpayer. It seems, this just provides one more payment option to students who are likely to succeed anyway and a refreshing business model for…

> But then such schools that predominantly work on ISAs, will pre-select for good students, who are most likely to succeed and also for industries where the compensation is higher.

That still sounds far better than the current system of selecting for the most popular (instead of valuable) subjects that draw in the most clueless students to get indebted for life for something they are unlikely to succeed in anyway.

> It doesn't address the real problem...

What does?

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#26

Post by [deleted] »

jerf wrote: post #21
chrisamiller wrote: post #6

So you get an education for free, then pay back into the system after you're in the workforce? Congratulations, silicon valley, you've just re-invented public education! Imagine what our public universities could look like with solid funding increases (which would be a fraction of that 17% that this group wants to take). They could be both free and amazing.

"Imagine what our public universities could look like with solid funding increases" The reason we're having this conversation in the first place is precisely the "funding increases" they've been experiencing. If this isn't enough "funding increase" for them: https://rpreschern.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/college-tuiti... then I'd have to suggest "funding" is not their problem. What they'd look like with "solid fundin…

[deleted]

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#27

Post by ChrisLomont »

gigatexal wrote: post #24
mdasen wrote: post #3

How is this different from income-based repayment of federal student loans? While there are different programs, the general idea is that you pay 10% of your "discretionary" income for 20 years with the guarantee that your payments aren't higher than the 10-year payoff rate. The article doesn't really have information on the Purdue system other than saying that it might cost high-earning students 250% of the price of…

Because when the loan is forgiven after 20 years it looks like income. So you have to pay tax on your forgiven loan. If Lambda School can’t teach you well enough that you get and keep a good paying job then they take the loss not the tax payer. Also: advocating for keeping the old system by saying this new way is not different is the least Hacker News things I’ve ever heard. The student loan crisis is an existential…

>they just lure students to the school helping them fill out student aid and loans and then give them subpar educations with curriculum being taught like it has been for years but they don’t care to change or innovate because the school has already been paid by an entity — the US education department who has deep pockets.

Total tuition loans outstanding is around $1.5T. Total US Education Dept annual budget, 70B. Median length to pay off student loans is around 20 years. 30% of people graduate with no debt, and of the remaining, median debt is around $30k, the cost of a decent car, and a fraction of what the same people will pay for a house.

Adding the entire Ed budget for the past 20 years is no where near the amount of loans outstanding. And in fact they lend only a fraction of their budget to student tuition.

Thus your claim that the US Ed dept is paying at the end of the day is mathematically impossible. The debt is from private lenders, who do have incentive to ensure borrowers pay back.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#28

Post by gigatexal »

ChrisLomont wrote: post #27
gigatexal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because when the loan is forgiven after 20 years it looks like income. So you have to pay tax on your forgiven loan. If Lambda School can’t teach you well enough that you get and keep a good paying job then they take the loss not the tax payer. Also: advocating for keeping the old system by saying this new way is not different is the least Hacker News things I’ve ever heard. The student loan crisis is an existential…

>they just lure students to the school helping them fill out student aid and loans and then give them subpar educations with curriculum being taught like it has been for years but they don’t care to change or innovate because the school has already been paid by an entity — the US education department who has deep pockets. Total tuition loans outstanding is around $1.5T. Total US Education Dept annual budget, 70B. Med…

Loans are a mix of subsidized and unsubsidized, sure. But the issue is that the incentive is that of any loan owner: repayment of the loan. With Lambda School the incentive is making better, more employable, engineers and the loans will pay themselves off. What good does it do the person and the economy if a bunch of people are straddled with debt for 30 years for a degree they can’t use being hounded by creditors while the universities remain the same? In the end there’s a network of entities that all own debt that will never get paid back, debt that is for all intents and purposes subprime. Remind you of anything?

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#29

Post by peacetreefrog »

chrisamiller wrote: post #6

So you get an education for free, then pay back into the system after you're in the workforce? Congratulations, silicon valley, you've just re-invented public education! Imagine what our public universities could look like with solid funding increases (which would be a fraction of that 17% that this group wants to take). They could be both free and amazing.

Pithy, but wrong.

Re: No Tuition, but You Pay a Percentage of Your Income if You Find a Job

#30

Post by whitepoplar »

austenallred wrote: post #4
mdasen wrote: post #3

How is this different from income-based repayment of federal student loans? While there are different programs, the general idea is that you pay 10% of your "discretionary" income for 20 years with the guarantee that your payments aren't higher than the 10-year payoff rate. The article doesn't really have information on the Purdue system other than saying that it might cost high-earning students 250% of the price of…

In a word: incentives. It’s not about the payment structure alone, it’s about a school that is incentivized to make its students successful. IBR is just taxpayers swallowing the bill when schools fail.

Yes, it's simple: Lambda School has skin in the game. Traditional universities have no skin in the game. Hence why we have a rent-seeking university system that hoovers money away from hard-working parents (and students), while putting those same parents and students at financial risk.
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