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A Guide for Adults Going to College

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Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#81
When I was an undergrad there was a 35-year-old real estate developer living in my dorm. He had decided he'd like to have a degree and enrolled at MIT.

I wish I had understood what it must have been like for him since there was nobody else in the building under 25. I know he had a sense of humor as I saw him once bring a date (around his age) back to his room.

But though we talked a bit I couldn't really comprehend what someone twice my age thought about being a student...and now I'm 17 years older than he was at the time I'd be fascinated to know.

Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#82
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the ability to declare bankruptcy would be nice. Millions are in a state of what amounts to indenture.

I don’t mean to be contentious here, but the reason for which student debt cannot be discharged by bankruptcy is pretty sound: it’s because education (theoretically) adds warning power to an individual and cannot be liquidated. (I’m not a lawyer and am not an American either.)

more to the point: it's an unsecured (ie, there's no collateral to take in the event of default) loan with a very low interest rate issued to a group of people who have little to no credit history.

Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#83
post #56
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That will push college prices even higher.

Can you explain why that is to me? I would think that if the expected return on college loans drops significantly, fewer large loans would be given out that can be passed on to universities which would see less demand for their product and would need to lower their prices accordingly.

The universities aren't on the hook for student loan defaults so they don't care about the expected return for the borrower or the lender. If students borrowed from the schools directly, then the admissions process along with university spending patterns would be vastly different. The only thing we have that is remotely close to this is schools giving out scholarships to students who have great potential to be high earners who later donate back to the school.

Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#84
post #63

I'm a returning student about to complete my degree at the end of this year. I went to an art school for a few years out of high school and ended up in customer service positions with some great companies. I didn't want to continue in customer service, so I decided to go back to school. Started with two years at community college, and now finishing up my last two at university. Some insights I picked up along the way…

I started college for the first time at 35 years old, and finished earlier this year after getting a BS CS, BS EE, and MS ECE. After 3 semesters at a community college, I transferred to a competitive engineering school (UIUC). My experience was very different from yours.

Community college had a few great professors, but most were not good. They did not have high expectations for students, and it showed in the way that classes were taught. It was far too easy and most students were not prepared for the increased difficulty of STEM classes after they transferred.

I don't think my university treated me as a child, but they scheduled labs and exams in a way that expects you to be available at all hours. That made things difficult for the few adults students that have other obligations outside of school. I was lucky in that I could afford to quit work and focus 100% on school. Most adults can't do that, but it is the best way to learn quickly.

Professors were selfish and self-serving, but that never affected me until graduate school. The professors in the earlier engineering classes at the 100, 200, and 300 levels were outstanding and incomparable to any professor I had in community college. In general, they were unselfish and would go very far out of their way to help students succeed.

Different colleges within the university were very different. That shouldn't be a problem for a transfer student because you don't have that much interaction with colleges other than your own. I only took 3 classes outside of the College of Engineering.

I was a software developer for years before I got a degree, and I still learned a tremendous amount. I consider my time at university to be the best time of my life. I would not have my current job (at a FAANG) if not for what I learned in classes and research. In fact, I have never met anyone (at any company) in my subfield that does not have a degree.

Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#85
post #58

What are the chances of attending Harvard / Stanford later in life? I have a life goal of going there but the older I get (24 now), the less I believe it can form into a reality.

If you can come up with a compelling story and a reason (other than bragging rights), and can prove you have academic skills, you will have a shot. The goal is to convince the admissions committee who are just a few people, so you want to try and form a mental model of how they think.

But why those two? Even if you are solely focused on prestige in the most superficial sense, there are at least a few more comparable US universities. You could increase your number of options by 5x or 10x even being very picky.

Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#86
I don't understand why anyone would consider going back to college when there's very legitimate online course options that cost a fraction. Look through edx.org and see for yourself.

Remember there's no guarantee that going back to school will net you the job you want but it's a guarantee that you will go into crippling debt that will follow you for the rest of your life.

Unless of course your company is paying for you to go back to school then why not.

Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#87
post #79
post #63

I'm a returning student about to complete my degree at the end of this year. I went to an art school for a few years out of high school and ended up in customer service positions with some great companies. I didn't want to continue in customer service, so I decided to go back to school. Started with two years at community college, and now finishing up my last two at university. Some insights I picked up along the way…

- there should be 4 semesters a year, not 2, people should graduate in 2 years, not 4+ At the onset of this journey, I was enthusiastic to learn, but along the way I've been beat down to just wanting to get "the piece of paper" and be done. It's been a long three years and each day forward is increasingly difficult to stomach since I realized I can learn all of what is being taught to me faster on my own. The fact th…

>The fact that it’s a 4-year slog is one of the factors that make university degree holders earn premium in the labor marketplace — conscientiousness, conformity and consistency required to slog through 4 years needed for school to certify it send employers a strong signal that you’re the kind of person who will do their job well.

In my career, everyone I've worked with had at least a Bachelor's. Most had a Master's and a few had a PhD. Only one did not finish undergrad.

I can assure you, people who hold a university degree are not particularly conscientious or consistent. I'll admit they probably do well in the "slog through mind numbingly boring work", but that's often a negative. Whenever I've been in a team full of people who have no problem doing the most tedious work you can imagine, the result have been the very same people tend to oppose ways to improve efficiency (usually "automate the boring work"). And the management doesn't care either (automating boring work will not help you in your career).

I don't want to work with people who don't mind really really boring work. I want to work with people who hate it enough to eliminate the need to do it. Engineers tend to be of the former category, and software people of the latter.

Also, depending on which school you go to, getting a degree from it is just its own skill. Knowing how to work the system (e.g. get previous years' homeworks and exams, etc) can play a big role.

I went to a low ranked undergrad and a top 5 grad school. My experience mirrors this person's if you substitute community college for undergrad and undergrad for grad. At the low ranked school, professors did not reuse homework or exams. They focused a lot more on what you were learning and less on how well you can do on the final exam. They had plenty of office hours - ranging from 3-12 hours a week (3 was considered low). Much fewer students per class. No TA's in between - faculty taught almost all the courses, and the office hours were with them.

There are down sides to a low ranked school (lack of smart peers and perhaps a slightly watered down curriculum), but I think quality of instruction is not one of them.

Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#88
post #60

Mid 50's here. As my kids are hitting college age I'm starting to get the itch to go back and complete my degree. My company has a facility near Cal Poly, where I went, and I drive by on my way in and out of town when I go onsite. Really don't know what to expect, figure I'll just wander on campus and stop by the admin building and see what they have to say. I'll bring my old student ID with me, just in case.

In my experience you can just show up the first day and ask the prof if they mind you auditing the course. There might be password-locked online materials these days, however.

I've thought about going back to finish the degree, but it's hard to see it as worth $60k/year.

Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will happen if you vote blue. Unfortunately it is a matter of voting blue enough, not just blue. In some areas politicians, even Democrats, regularly relate to their constituents by bashing "East cost liberal elites" despite having degrees from Ivy League schools. If Doug Jones had said that a liberal arts education is valuable for developing into a well-rounded citizen his race would have ended then and there.

I have a college degree. I hope for my kids to take the path of earning college degrees. I think that college is great in the abstract. I also think that until we sort out our health care system in this country (USA), a career in the trades is a very frightening prospect. Even so, this comment is very interesting to me. I frequently see on Hacker News the sentiment that modern higher education is a bubble. That if we…

[deleted]

Re: A Guide for Adults Going to College

#90
post #79
post #63

I'm a returning student about to complete my degree at the end of this year. I went to an art school for a few years out of high school and ended up in customer service positions with some great companies. I didn't want to continue in customer service, so I decided to go back to school. Started with two years at community college, and now finishing up my last two at university. Some insights I picked up along the way…

- there should be 4 semesters a year, not 2, people should graduate in 2 years, not 4+ At the onset of this journey, I was enthusiastic to learn, but along the way I've been beat down to just wanting to get "the piece of paper" and be done. It's been a long three years and each day forward is increasingly difficult to stomach since I realized I can learn all of what is being taught to me faster on my own. The fact th…

> The fact that it’s a 4-year slog is one of the factors that make university degree holders earn premium in the labor marketplace

Aren't you on holiday for a lot of those 4 years?

I went to uni for 4 years, and it was 3 terms of 8 weeks each, per year. In other words, 96 weeks.

Throw in the occasional rest week and it should really fit in two years.

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