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Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

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Re: Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

#281

Post by dllthomas »

dragonwriter wrote: post #203
alexhutcheson wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Costco's average customer is definitely higher income than the average American, although I've seen different attempts to quantify this. The first result from a Google search gives me this: https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/06/17/who-is-costcos-fav... A couple of factors act as a "filter" that makes Costco less worthwhile for lower income shoppers: - Buying in bulk requires a bunch of cash up front, which not every…

> A couple of factors act as a "filter" that makes Costco less worthwhile for lower income shoppers: You missed a big one in many areas: buying in bulk requires facilities for storing inventory.

With sufficiently stable social circles (also not available to everyone, but at least not an identical requirement) you could replace storage with distribution.

Re: Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

#282

Post by b3b0p »

wombatpm wrote: post #5

Sears had everything. Global supply chain, check. Top notch distribution operation, check. System and infrastructure to take orders and handling billing, check. Name recognition and established customer base, check. They threw it all away, ending catalog operations in 1993 a year before Amazon.com opened in 1994. They owned part of Prodigy in 1984! Yet somehow thought it was a better move to expand into bigger box re…

I did not know about Sears owning part of Prodigy. I bought Blades of Steel on NES through Sears on Prodigy. Back then delivery was weeks and not days.

Re: Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

#283

Post by filmgirlcw »

acdha wrote: post #227
xigency wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought this as well until I heard a counter-point [0] which was very convincing. The reason Amazon is successful is not because you can shop online (from a catalog) and receive items in the mail. The reason Amazon is successful is because you can do those things and receive your items within two days. Before Prime existed, Amazon had very quick fulfillment, and after Prime two-day it became even better. The Sears…

There was a significant gap between Amazon launch and having two-day shipping — it took years of behind the scenes development before orders started arriving notably faster than other retails. Sears' numbers include regular postal delivery in both directions so switching to online ordering would have cut them in half with no other changes (and don't forget the efficiency wins from orders arriving as validated electro…

The pricing benefit really cannot be understated.

Amazon was 40% less than list for books -- which was a massive amount, even if you lived in Barnes & Noble markets (and B&N wasn't as pervasive in 1996/1997 as your average mall bookstore was), where there were similar markdowns.

And of course, you could get any book you wanted from Amazon.

And then Amazon very quickly moved into media like CDs and DVDs. I used to order DVDs from various online retailers in the late 1990s and although Amazon wasn't my go-to in 1999/2000 (there were plenty of startups that sold at ridiculous losses and coupons that 16 year old me took advantage of), I appreciated their selection -- not to mention the gift certificates.

I think a lot of us forget that Amazon wasn't the only big e-tailer in the late 90s, it's just the one that survived. There were lots and lots of bigger and smaller places that straight up went out of business after the .com crash, but Amazon, despite taking a massive beating, survived.

Price was a huge reason for its success -- but I agree with others who point out that Sears and other incumbents had a chance to take them on, if not on price, than on selection and speed, way earlier than they did.

Instead, many businesses chose to partner with Amazon (Borders, Toys R Us) for a time, to their ultimate detriment.

Re: Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

#284

Post by dragonwriter »

sejordan wrote: post #197
ForHackernews wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it grows larger, the "Amazon marketplace" is getting more and more filled with garbage knockoff products and fake reviews. There may eventually come a tipping point where they lose user trust.

I feel like every time there is a discussion about Amazon on the Internet, this point is brought up. I spent about $9,000 on Amazon across 139 orders in 2018. I buy a lot on Amazon. I've never had a problem with receiving knockoff products. I don't understand how this can be such a prevalent issue when I've not run into it, given how much I use Amazon. The only thing I can think is that, if I'm buying something expen…

> The only thing I can think is that, if I'm buying something expensive, I'll strictly only purchase items "Sold by: Amazon.com Services, Inc"

If you are trying to avoid counterfeits, that's not really helpful, since the problem with counterfeits is magnified by commingling, by which items sold by Amazon itself, and FBA sellers that do not opt-out of it are mixed and orders fulfilled with goods that may have been sourced by any of the sellers.

Re: Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

#285

Post by aunty_helen »

Another Kodak moment!

But seriously, whilst it's fair to critique the amount that CEO's are paid, when the alternative might be complete failure the cost is justified. Sears is a failure of the C levels and ultimately a failure of the board. Remember that next time we all balk at the $xx million paycheck of a F500.

Re: Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

#286

Post by burfog »

eesmith wrote: post #15
threatofrain wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not disputing the CEO is a force of destruction, but ought not some businesses close? What’s the place of Sears in the modern age?

Of course some businesses should close. That's not an interesting question. In the modern age, after Sears was destroy by vulture capitalism ( https://prospect.org/article/it-was-vulture-capitalism-kille... ), its place is in the grave. I think the interesting questions are: - Amazon is the modern mail-order company. Why didn't Sears (re)discover that niche? - Does this (finally) drive a stake through the heart of th…

Bankruptcy court can determine that transactions before the bankruptcy filing were done to evade the payment priority defined by bankruptcy law. The court can do a clawback to get those assets.

Re: Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

#287

Post by distances »

scrooched_moose wrote: post #175
artursapek wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if Amazon will ever get to that point. It's hard to imagine.

Anecdotally, I've seen a significant perception shift regarding Amazon over the last year, even among my non-techie friends. When this group of friends starts talking about these things I know it's moving beyond the Hacker News crowd to the general public. It used to be the place where you could get anything for a good price in 2 days and trust the quality. Now the selection is getting iffy in favor of house brands,…

Over here in Europe when I hear something negative about Amazon from non-techie people, it's always about working conditions. I guess the recent Spanish strikes have helped to publicize that more. Some people are thinking of avoiding ordering from Amazon, but I doubt that actually translates to that much of real action yet.

Re: Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

#289

Post by stinky613 »

filmgirlcw wrote: post #283
acdha wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a significant gap between Amazon launch and having two-day shipping — it took years of behind the scenes development before orders started arriving notably faster than other retails. Sears' numbers include regular postal delivery in both directions so switching to online ordering would have cut them in half with no other changes (and don't forget the efficiency wins from orders arriving as validated electro…

The pricing benefit really cannot be understated. Amazon was 40% less than list for books -- which was a massive amount, even if you lived in Barnes & Noble markets (and B&N wasn't as pervasive in 1996/1997 as your average mall bookstore was), where there were similar markdowns. And of course, you could get any book you wanted from Amazon. And then Amazon very quickly moved into media like CDs and DVDs. I used to ord…

Very good points. I'd like to add that Amazon began in a time when the typical person didn't trust ANY online shopping options. To my recollection, Amazon and eBay were the two biggest players that found ways to give people confidence that they could safely shop online.

Re: Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

#290

Post by dragonwriter »

dllthomas wrote: post #281
dragonwriter wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A couple of factors act as a "filter" that makes Costco less worthwhile for lower income shoppers: You missed a big one in many areas: buying in bulk requires facilities for storing inventory.

With sufficiently stable social circles (also not available to everyone, but at least not an identical requirement) you could replace storage with distribution.

Sure, but the poor are less likely to have stable social circles for shared purchases and distribution as well as less able to afford storage.
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