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The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

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Re: The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

#471

Post by cm2187 »

arethuza wrote: post #369
rscho wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely true. As a doc, the US problem boils down to a cultural issue that can be summarized as: "there is no reason my money should pay for the care of others, but if I personally need care, then it should be of the absolute best quality and should be provided until my last breath no matter what" The people maintain the system themselves by insisting on that, and that is the root of every other problem. Before al…

"there is no reason my money should pay for the care of others" Isn't the cultural issue largely a idealogical issue - things like the UK NHS are avowedly socialist? In the words of Aneurin Bevan, founder of the NHS: " A free health service is pure Socialism and as such it is opposed to the hedonism of capitalist society." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneurin_Bevan Personally, at least when it comes to healthcare, I…

Paying for the care of others is also the insurance model, which is not socialism. I think where you lose support from part of the population is when the system is being abused. I understand France for instance has an abnormally high number of depressions, as it is a common way for a lazy employee to take some time off at the expense of the system. In the US I understand there is an abnormally high number of people on disability benefits.

The hostility I think comes not from the fact that it is mandatory, but from the fact that if it is managed by the state, it will be badly managed, abused by a minority, and you end up over-paying while getting a bad service yourself the day you need it.

Re: The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

#472

Post by mac01021 »

joe_the_user wrote: post #322
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the problems with the Canadian system is frankly its proximity to the U.S. A large portion of our homegrown medical talent goes immediately south of the border for higher salaries (see your point about price controls on healthcare providers above).

"In the World Health Organization's rankings of healthcare system performance among 191 member nations published in 2000, Canada ranked 30th and the U.S. 37th, while the overall health of Canadians was ranked 35th and Americans 72nd" [1] So despite this problem, the Canadian health care system still manages to be superior to the US system. Perhaps in the field of health care, "top talent" is not as pressing a questio…

Doesn't overall health depend on lifestyle much more than on healthcare?

Re: The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

#474

Post by cmrdporcupine »

mac01021 wrote: post #472
joe_the_user wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In the World Health Organization's rankings of healthcare system performance among 191 member nations published in 2000, Canada ranked 30th and the U.S. 37th, while the overall health of Canadians was ranked 35th and Americans 72nd" [1] So despite this problem, the Canadian health care system still manages to be superior to the US system. Perhaps in the field of health care, "top talent" is not as pressing a questio…

Doesn't overall health depend on lifestyle much more than on healthcare?

I don't think you'll find much demographic differences between the U.S. and Canada, apart from a much higher poverty and incarceration rate in the U.S.

Arguably our stronger safety net and better education system, while not technically part of the healthcare system, is also part of producing better health outcomes.

Re: The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

#475

Post by Pigo »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #357
ropable wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Healthcare, and gun culture.

The police would be another.

As someone living in the US, I have to agree, I'm getting shot at by the police on a daily basis. They are the devil incarnate.

Re: The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

#476

Post by cmrdporcupine »

vasili111 wrote: post #235
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the problems with the Canadian system is frankly its proximity to the U.S. A large portion of our homegrown medical talent goes immediately south of the border for higher salaries (see your point about price controls on healthcare providers above).

If you need talents to stay in your country then you need to pay them more.

I think doctors are paid pretty well, frankly. I also think we need more of a role for nurses and midwives, and less of a focus on centralized hospital based medical care.

But as others have pointed out: we're culturally and linguistically contiguous with the U.S. and have fairly free movement of skilled professionals. It's hard to compete with an economy with a population that is ten times ours.

It's the same in our/my industry. Being right next to the U.S. means the bulk of the quality engineers here go straight south to the valley after getting their very good subsidized university education. This is a problem.

Re: The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

#477

Post by macintux »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #396
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Congress and the Senate are full of corrupt leeches, and both parties are equally guilty. No, the Democrats and Republicans are not the same.

Both parties are equally guilty of being more worried about holding on to the reigns of power than serving the public.

No, I reject that equivalency.

One party is suppressing the vote and constantly sabotaging the workings of the government to retain power.

Re: The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

#478

Post by kingaillas »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #451
dragonwriter wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I broke my leg doing something stupid you can bet your ass I'd call around and get quotes if I could. Quotes for...what? Even with price transparency on actual services, “I broke my leg” doesn't tell you with much specificity what services you need. And that's not even to discuss, “I'm having chest pain and dizziness”.

>Quotes for...what? Even with price transparency on actual services, “I broke my leg” doesn't tell you with much specificity what services you need. And that's not even to discuss, “I'm having chest pain and dizziness”. Sounds a lot like "my car is making a funny noise" or "my septic is backed up". Diagnosis should be cheap/free depending on how involved it is and then you get a quote for how much it will cost to fix…

And that's why seeing a doctor often involves a battery of seemingly unrelated tests - diagnosis can be difficult and involved.

The fact is "my car is making a funny noise" or "my septic is backed up" are not life threatening situations; they are inconveniences with ready substitutes available. Health care is not a free market like car mechanics and plumbing are.

Re: The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

#479

Post by Brain_Thief »

thousandautumns wrote: post #461
asdff wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apples and oranges.

How so? The products they make are different, but at the end of the day they are both industries living in the capitalist society we've created, driven by the same incentives, and largely operating by similar principles. How is it morally acceptable for a tech company to make huge margins and yet morally reprehensible for a pharma company to make margins that are smaller?

The answer to this is so obvious that I almost have to assume that you're not asking in good faith, unless your purpose is to point out the flaws in our society's views on economics. Tech companies like the ones mentioned are known for primarily producing non-essential luxury goods like smartphones or B2B services. The pharma companies under discussion are in many cases producing drugs that people must take in order to live.

Re: The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

#480

Post by dandare »

tboyd47 wrote: post #423

Here's a simple, free-market solution that no one seems to have thought of: start a health insurance company that pays for medical tourism. That would provide consumers a cost-effective alternative and put pressure on the American hospital systems to bring down costs. Why wouldn't this work?

Even better: a billionaire philanthropist to start a non-profit health insurance company that only works with its own chain of evidence-based providers and hospitals, combined with medical tourism. That would provide consumers with a cost-effective alternative and put pressure on the American hospital systems to bring down costs. Why wouldn't this work?
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