Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#51

Post by kijin » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 1:16 PM UTC

1_player wrote: post #8

As a sibling commenter said, define web developer first. I can see two viable, yet very different definitions: 1. Frontend web engineer: Versed in HTML, CSS, modern Javascript libraries such as React, Vue, Angular. This is a programming role first and foremost, better paying than #2, and what I would suggest focusing on. 2. "Classic web developer": Versed in HTML, CSS and just enough JS/jQuery. Knows the inside out o…

There's also a third definition: 3. Web backend developer, who knows the inside out of some framework or language such as Laravel/PHP, Django/Python, Rails/Ruby, or node/ECMAScript, and focuses on writing server-side logic for the frontend guy to consume. Also look at C# or Java if you want to get into the enterprise market.

You're not going to find this kind of developer in a run-of-the-mill WordPress shop. You probably won't find them in the latest startup that is all on the serverless bandwagon, either. But there are quite a few of backend positions in larger organizations where you might coincidentally find better pay and job security as well. Bonus points if you're well versed in security, or know how to talk to the database guys over there.

Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#52

Post by zozbot123 » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 1:17 PM UTC

Kaveren wrote: post #36

andybak wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about "web developer who thinks heavy client-side frameworks are a bad idea"?

I'd go so far as to question the experience of someone who doesn't see value in React or frameworks similar to it for web applications. There's a large contingent that advocates for bare-bones JS development, but minimalism for the sake of it is not worthwhile. It's all patchwork on top of JavaScript, though. Another programming language like Elm, or something that compiles to WebAssembly, may be another option to co…

Minimalism for the sake of good battery life and low website latency is quite worthwhile, though.

Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#53

Post by lawn » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 1:18 PM UTC

1_player wrote: post #8

As a sibling commenter said, define web developer first. I can see two viable, yet very different definitions: 1. Frontend web engineer: Versed in HTML, CSS, modern Javascript libraries such as React, Vue, Angular. This is a programming role first and foremost, better paying than #2, and what I would suggest focusing on. 2. "Classic web developer": Versed in HTML, CSS and just enough JS/jQuery. Knows the inside out o…

If you're trying to categorize web developers then you really need to mention back-end development as well.

3. Full-stack web developer.

4. Back-end web developer.

Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#54

Post by irrational » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 1:24 PM UTC

1_player wrote: post #8

As a sibling commenter said, define web developer first. I can see two viable, yet very different definitions: 1. Frontend web engineer: Versed in HTML, CSS, modern Javascript libraries such as React, Vue, Angular. This is a programming role first and foremost, better paying than #2, and what I would suggest focusing on. 2. "Classic web developer": Versed in HTML, CSS and just enough JS/jQuery. Knows the inside out o…

I consider myself a web developer (that's how I introduce myself), but my definition would be:

3. HTML, React/Vue (and related libraries like redux/vuex), CSS, SCSS, JS (including ES6+), JSON, REST, Node.js, Webpack, Babel, Python/Java/.Net/PHP/etc., SQL, Postgres/MySQL/etc. DDL/DML, Git/SVN/etc., Apache/NGINX/etc., HTTP/HTTPS, Let's Encrypt, Linux related technologies (SSH, BASH, etc.), etc.

Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#55

Post by lowkeyokay » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 1:34 PM UTC

VirgilShelton wrote: post #50

Yes. What you're missing is three fold... 1: Where do people hire freelancers. 2: Sales skills. 3: An alternative to worrying about 1 and 2. 1. Create a profile and Upwork. While everything you'll read about Upwork will be negative you need leads. Upwork gets them for you and yes you can create your own website and start there but Upwork already spends a ton of money on ads / SEO and content marketing to keep generat…

If you are worried about Upwork's reputation, choose Toptal instead. I have no connection with them other than having worked with freelancers from them a couple of times. They've been great. I have also come to know one of their devs personally, and he had only good things to say. He is now employed full time by a company for whom he used to work for through Toptal.

However, having six months of experience, Toptal might not hire you. As someone already posted, I'd advise you to find a team and gain some experience. Having a deadline, and a customer with very high expectations - perhaps set by your initial promises - is sure path to a very stressful worklife. Don't do it.

Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#56

Post by dna_polymerase » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 1:34 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #27

dna_polymerase wrote: post #20

Don't focues your education on single frameworks, take your time to learn the basics. For example: - Don't just learn Django, learn Python - Don't focus on React, Vue, etc. learn JavaScript Those skills will last longer and make it easier to transition into other roles if front-end doesn't feel right for you at any point in the future.

In theory I agree. But learning something just well enough to get your foot in the door as a junior will have immediate rewards and then you can learn more deeply.

Absolutely, I agree. But don't get lazy then and really take the time to learn the basics. Aside from all the webdev focused MOOCs and courses on the internet there is plenty of stuff about Computer Science theory and whatnot available, so the opportunity is there.

Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#57

Post by ascales » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 1:35 PM UTC

If you can't find a viable path the learn web development, or programming in general, you probably aren't a good enough problem solver to bother with the career in the first place

Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#58

Post by ptero » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 1:39 PM UTC

> realistically it has been a few solid weeks of learning since it is a side hobby that I hope will turn into my career

This is great -- people tend to quickly get good at hobby skills (as those are something they like and do voluntarily). However, a few weeks of learning is not nearly enough to get a taste for what a job there requires / involves and especially decide whether you will like what you do for a hobby as a career. I suggest two paths, pick one that you like most:

1. Pick something cool you can do as a "web app" and do it. Repeat 3-5 times. Don't worry if there are 50 existing options to do it, you are learning. But the end result should look good to you -- that is to be something you would enjoy using or showing to friends. Some examples: generate a beautiful ready-to-print PDF calendar with custom something (birthdays, vacation pics / links, etc); take a photo and make an STL file ready for 3D printing a coin (render on display, allow some options, etc.); capture and analyze OBDII data from your car; etc.

2. Find where others doing the type of development you want to do hang out (meetups, etc.); buy them beer and ask what they did, what the job market is, what skills you would need. Tell them that you did it as a hobby and wonder what the job market looks like. Many folks would gladly share wisdom or even mentor if they feel it is useful and appreciated.

Good luck and have fun!

Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#59

Post by mschaef » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 1:40 PM UTC

avar wrote: post #15

gesman wrote: post #10

Solving [business] problems is a viable career choice. Web development could be solving someone's essential business problem or totally non-essential for someone else. The key is to find the customer for whom whatever you're doing will solve essential business problem. Quite often web development is exactly what customer needs but he won't call it this way. He won't use this wording. He won't look for web developer.…

This is just bypassing OP's question. You could similarly ask if plumbing, plastering or tiling is still a viable career choice in construction, or whether one should focus on general carpentry. You'd then try to work on projects where your construction specialty is seen to be more valuable than not, that goes to your comment. But that's an entirety different question than whether a specialty should be pursued, and i…

For whatever it's worth, their answer was pretty close to my immediate reaction when I saw the question. Maybe another way of phrasing the answer is that no, I don't think 'Web Dev' is a viable career option. This becomes even more true when viewed on a time scale of 10, 20, 30 years. (Tying to a specific technology brings the horizon in even further... Web Dev 20 years ago was CGI scripts, 10 years ago it was server-side rendering frameworks, these days it's SPA's...)

What I do think is that 'Web Dev' might be a viable first step within a career. It's a good way to get yourself into a spot where you're exposed to signifiant problems, and if you're lucky, it will also give you exposure to people that can help you along, as you develop your career. (But it's important to be intentional about both.)

At the very least, that's how I answer then question when asked in person... focus on the specific tech as a tool in the short-term, and then focus on effectively solving problems people care about. It's better for them, and most likely, better for your own personal career development.

(Edit: Some of this may just be my own perspective... My professional work has included everything ranging from small scale embedded programming to large scale clustered web apps and platform development. I'm grateful for never having thought of myself as a 'web dev', even though it is something I'm capable of.)

Re: Ask HN: Is web development still a viable career choice?

#60

Post by Kaveren » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 1:50 PM UTC

RHSeeger wrote: post #44

Kaveren wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd go so far as to question the experience of someone who doesn't see value in React or frameworks similar to it for web applications. There's a large contingent that advocates for bare-bones JS development, but minimalism for the sake of it is not worthwhile. It's all patchwork on top of JavaScript, though. Another programming language like Elm, or something that compiles to WebAssembly, may be another option to co…

> minimalism for the sake of it is not worthwhile It is entirely possible to dislike React for being React, rather than for the fact that it's not minimalism. I have to work with React, and it's a constant source of pain for me.

What do you dislike not just about React, but categorically about that style of frontend development in general? Framework specific distaste I understand, but general philosophy wise I don't.