Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 415 posts

Re: Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

#381

Post by michaelmrose »

CJefferson wrote: post #343
michaelmrose wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try this is an exercise instead pick a random dell. Attempt to install OSX on it. Post about how huge a hassle this was and how the end result was a non functioning brick and OSX still isn't ready. If you google computer model linux. If the result is 17 pages of results about how it didn't work you may want to try a different model. Generally how well your machine is supported is a function of how hostile your oem is…

I've installed Ubuntu 18.10 on an XPS 13, which everyone tells me is well supported by Linux, Dell even sell it with Ubuntu. It won't come out of sleep. Googling suggests other have this problem.

XPS is a range of models and 13 is a size it doens't uniquely identify the model. Does it have the problem under the lts version that dell presumably ships?

Re: Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

#382

Post by angry_octet »

Spivak wrote: post #305
angry_octet wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to statically link, you can use LD_PRELOAD to point to local versions of all libraries. It isn't optimal, from space/security perspectives, but it works. You can use the local libs first or last in the path.

You don't even have to do that. When you compile your binary you just need to set the rpath to your own directory of libs and they will be search automatically and fall back to the system if missing.

Last time I looked the rpath is a static absolute path, which is inconvenient if you want to install the libraries elsewhere.

The automatic fallback to system libraries can also lead to mysterious problems.

Re: Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

#383

Post by maccard »

yellowapple wrote: post #318
freeone3000 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

THIS is the problem. Windows drivers start working on day 1 and continue working. The breaks are when we went to 32-bit drivers in NT and when we disabled real-time hardware interrupts in Vista. Linux needs a driver compatibility story this strong to even start.

On the flipside, while Windows has a greater quantity of drivers available for devices on day 1 of release, Linux tends to have a greater quantity of drivers available for devices at time of install. With Linux, there's no separate step of having to wait for Windows Update to pull the driver, since all the drivers are included alongside the kernel (the exceptions being printer drivers - which aren't developed alongsi…

> Meanwhile, I "fondly" remember having to have a USB stick on hand for Windows 7 installs because the default install didn't include wired (let alone wireless) NIC drivers for 90% of the laptops and desktops on which I installed it.

I worked in an IT support shop at the time windows 7 was released, and I imaged and installed hundreds of copies of windows 7 over the time I worked there. While you're right about wireless drivers being a crapshoot, I can not remember a single instance of missing wired NIC drivers on install. I'm not doubting that some were missing (there is lots of hardware, lots of manufacturers out there), but it was definitely not as huge a problem. The biggest issue was usually SD card readers and trackpads which required downloading from the manufacturer.

I've done a few linux desktop installs (same job) and the situation was definitely more painful. Issues with sleep/wake, webcams, network drivers (usually wireless), multiple displays were basically guaranteed, and the help process was usually "You're using the wrong hardware", which isn't really helpful.

Re: Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

#384

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

bayindirh wrote: post #377
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time someone mentions not using Linux Desktop because they had a lot of issues, someone like you comes out of the woodwork and pretends that Linux doesn't have issues anymore. Maybe that's yet another reason people don't switch to Linux: the evangelists are annoying and untrustworthy.

> Every time someone mentions not using Linux Desktop because they had a lot of issues, someone like you comes out of the woodwork and pretends that Linux doesn't have issues anymore. Did someone call me? Jokes aside, as a person using Linux (95% of the time, for ~15 years or so), I can honestly tell that Linux has its fair share of problems. However, for some time, the problems I experience are not more frequent tha…

Don't get me wrong, I agree that progress has been made. Sound, unless you need low latency, is pretty much a solved problem now, for one.

But there are a lot of reasons that Linux's particular brand of issues are actually still a deal breaker for people, and refusing to acknowledge that will never attract anyone to the platform.

Re: Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

#385

Post by bluescarni »

izacus wrote: post #334
bluescarni wrote: post #56

> We started working on the game in 2012 > Issues specific to Linux were almost entirely graphics driver related, and unique to the platform. So this is essentially a rant about linux graphics drivers circa 2012?

Are they any better in 2019? Last I checked the anything beyond desktop compositing features is still a tyre fire of lying capabilities, broken functionality and wishful thinking. nVidia being by far the most stable while lacking integration with modern Linux APIs.

As a full-time linux user and occasional gamer, I have been using the AMD open drivers since circa 2010. The improvements have been massive, both in stability and performance. Since the availability of steam, I have been doing all my gaming exclusively on linux, logging a probably unhealthy number of hours on various games (Dota, various iterations of Civilization, City Skylines, Stellaris, etc.).

Not to say the situation is perfect by any means, but the difference from 2012/2014 is night and day.

Re: Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

#386

Post by bayindirh »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #384
bayindirh wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every time someone mentions not using Linux Desktop because they had a lot of issues, someone like you comes out of the woodwork and pretends that Linux doesn't have issues anymore. Did someone call me? Jokes aside, as a person using Linux (95% of the time, for ~15 years or so), I can honestly tell that Linux has its fair share of problems. However, for some time, the problems I experience are not more frequent tha…

Don't get me wrong, I agree that progress has been made. Sound, unless you need low latency, is pretty much a solved problem now, for one. But there are a lot of reasons that Linux's particular brand of issues are actually still a deal breaker for people, and refusing to acknowledge that will never attract anyone to the platform.

For low latency I've played with Jack a little while I was playing bass. It wasn't very bad, but I don't have recent information on the issue.

I for one do photo post-processing and development on Linux mainly, and have no problems while doing what I want to do.

> ...Linux's particular brand of issues...

Can you please elaborate? I'm interested. Since I'm using Linux heavily and for a very long time, I might be blind to that problems.

Re: Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

#388

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

bayindirh wrote: post #386
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that progress has been made. Sound, unless you need low latency, is pretty much a solved problem now, for one. But there are a lot of reasons that Linux's particular brand of issues are actually still a deal breaker for people, and refusing to acknowledge that will never attract anyone to the platform.

For low latency I've played with Jack a little while I was playing bass. It wasn't very bad, but I don't have recent information on the issue. I for one do photo post-processing and development on Linux mainly, and have no problems while doing what I want to do. > ...Linux's particular brand of issues... Can you please elaborate? I'm interested. Since I'm using Linux heavily and for a very long time, I might be blind…

Just google around a bit, even just on HN, and you'll find dozens of examples. A lot of it comes down to poor drivers, especially for laptops, but much of it is systemic.

I'm reluctant to go into detail about my own personal blockers because every time I do I end up in a multi-page argument with some evangelists who insist that everything I want to do is completely wrong and I should just change my entire workflow to match theirs.

Re: Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

#389

Post by bayindirh »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #388
bayindirh wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For low latency I've played with Jack a little while I was playing bass. It wasn't very bad, but I don't have recent information on the issue. I for one do photo post-processing and development on Linux mainly, and have no problems while doing what I want to do. > ...Linux's particular brand of issues... Can you please elaborate? I'm interested. Since I'm using Linux heavily and for a very long time, I might be blind…

Just google around a bit, even just on HN, and you'll find dozens of examples. A lot of it comes down to poor drivers, especially for laptops, but much of it is systemic. I'm reluctant to go into detail about my own personal blockers because every time I do I end up in a multi-page argument with some evangelists who insist that everything I want to do is completely wrong and I should just change my entire workflow to…

You're right. Laptop support tends to be problematic, and boils down to selection of right hardware "platform" in the beginning. The worst part is, the right platform is not always budget friendly.

I personally found out that professional class hardware (Dell XPS, HP EliteBook, Lenovo ThinkPad) has the best Linux support out there. I have a EliteBook 850G2 at the office, and except the fingerprint reader (which I don't use), everything is working without any problems. Battery life is also great (~7 hours). However, works for me is not a valid excuse, esp. with hardware.

If you want to discuss further, you can reach me via my profile page.

Re: Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

#390

Post by nvarsj »

simias wrote: post #128
rkido wrote: post #53

Linux is the perpetual scapegoat. They selected a middleware, Coherent UI, that didn't work properly on anything but Windows. They also didn't make proper use of the Steam runtime, a mistake that continues to cause issues. Most games don't make these mistakes, so this isn't really representative of the larger state of Linux gaming. It's worth pointing out that the devs did make a legitimately good attempt at making L…

Technically speaking I'm sure you're right. In practice it doesn't really matter though, if they did it that way it's either because it was easier or because that's the way they were used to doing it. The fact that "technically" it's not Linux's fault doesn't really matter, unless you're more interested in the moral concept of guilt rather that the practicalities of making a Linux port of a game. Why should they chan…

Any multimedia on Linux sucks these days. I honestly think it's regressed from the days of running mplayer in a terminal. I can't watch a video in a browser without horrible screen tearing or general performance issues. It seems the poor quality of graphic drivers and X interaction are the underlying problem.
Post reply on HN