Thank u, next • Hacker News Board

Re: Thank u, next

#171

Post by nickpsecurity » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 2:41 AM UTC

Bartweiss wrote: post #135

fxfan wrote: post #3

I want to say from his past blog posts- Steve is a very thoughtful writer. And from all my online interactions in comments- a very respectful person. Knowing him (whatever little) things must be really frustrating for him to call Mozilla out in public. Rust is what it is- not because its an amazingly well designed language - lots of languages are very well designed Haskell, f#, Scala. But Rust has a very public devel…

> Rust has a very public development I don't know how far Rust will go in adoption breadth and lifespan, but it's already clear that it's had a major impact on the community. Both personally and on HN, I've seen it drive a new cohort of people to take an interest in PL design, low-level languages and safety guarantees, and even kernel design theory. Talented people who have never previously gone in for C or C++ saw a…

" I've seen it drive a new cohort of people to take an interest in PL design, low-level languages and safety guarantees, and even kernel design theory. Talented people who have never previously gone in for C or C++ saw a chance to start in on those fields with Rust, to all of our benefit. It's obvious to me that Steve (and the Rust team more generally) deserve a lot of credit for that."

Exactly. They've done what Ada and other safe, systems languages couldn't do. They made it go mainstream with stronger protections than before on top of thriving community. Quite amazing.

Re: Thank u, next

#172

Post by Uhhrrr » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 3:32 AM UTC

steveklabnik wrote: post #156

Uhhrrr wrote: post #139

The title comes off as kind of an F you.

I understand that intentions don't always matter, but if you read the lyrics to the song, I think it's more the opposite.

I accept this explanation, but am not going to look up a pop song to verify it.

Re: Thank u, next

#173

Post by topspin » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 3:37 AM UTC

steveklabnik wrote: post #149

topspin wrote: post #146

Re Fuchsia: "They use a lot of Rust, and plan to use more." When I look at Fuchsia source I don't see much Rust. There is Fargo, a Cargo wrapper that integrates Rust into the Fuchsia build system, but I don't see a lot of actual Rust code in the system. What am I missing? I've cloned Topaz, Zircon and some other large Fuchsia repos, but I see only a smattering of Rust source.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18765780

Thanks.

Re: Thank u, next

#174

Post by msie » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 4:00 AM UTC

Bartweiss wrote: post #140

notabot wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he was one of those people making easy SV money Yet what I see most of the time is that organizations exploit employees' passion. The more you like your job, the less likely you will leave, so why bother paying you more? I had a moment of epiphany when my manager said to me in a 1-to-1: "You've been very passionate and doing great. Now $competitors are in town, so we will raise your pay by $a-double-digit-number %"…

> "we will raise your pay by $a-double-digit-number %" ... "I will start looking for my next job tomorrow" I've always wondered how much value employers lose via this sort of error. 'Reactive' compensation absolutely does drive people away, for good reason. Retaining employees by matching outside offers is even worse; outside the very highest levels it fosters instability and encourages people to interview elsewhere.…

But many employees would stay if they got the raise they asked for. Is it worse that the employer initiates the raise?

Re: Thank u, next

#175

Post by kureikain » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 7:21 AM UTC

This is sad.

I plan to do Rust in 2019 more. I'm amaze by performance of Rust software(Parity of Ethereum). My friends who read HN that I talked to knew Rust because of Steve. It sounds ridiculous but it's what I observed.

Mozilla do a lots of experiment and weird projects. yet they aren't willing to put him on same level of pay scale.

Re: Thank u, next

#176

Post by jlebar » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 7:22 AM UTC

sstangl wrote: post #123

kevintb wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never knew Mozilla had a toxic culture. Could you expand on this (or any other former Mozilla employees attest to this)?

I have worked on Mozilla's JS team since 2010. I think our team culture is acceptable. Glossing over details, Mozilla Corp seems to have two cultures: one for engineering and team management, and another for mid-to-upper-level management. When these two groups interact, it tends to produce unhappiness. Over the years, that has been the source of most griping I've heard from coworkers, particularly when they need uppe…

> Glossing over details, Mozilla Corp seems to have two cultures: one for engineering and team management, and another for mid-to-upper-level management.

This is in line with what I've heard from my friends who stayed longer than I did. But from my perspective now, wow does this sound toxic.

It's sad to see things be like this, I loved Mozilla for most of the time that I was there.

Re: Thank u, next

#177

Post by jlebar » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 7:32 AM UTC

Phlarp wrote: post #39

Why is it that nonprofit tech organizations see such value in maintaining a San Francisco office location (looking at you Mozilla and EFF) only to lowball employees on compensation? Surely the perception of having a trendy location can't be worth more than market salaries in the pursuit of talent? Are there other benefits to the location besides perception?

Mozilla was big on remote work, at least while I was there. In fact I can't think of too many other places that had as many remote workers doing that level of systems programming.

Re: Thank u, next

#178

Post by notabot » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 8:45 AM UTC

msie wrote: post #174

Bartweiss wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "we will raise your pay by $a-double-digit-number %" ... "I will start looking for my next job tomorrow" I've always wondered how much value employers lose via this sort of error. 'Reactive' compensation absolutely does drive people away, for good reason. Retaining employees by matching outside offers is even worse; outside the very highest levels it fosters instability and encourages people to interview elsewhere.…

But many employees would stay if they got the raise they asked for. Is it worse that the employer initiates the raise?

The act sent out two messages to me.

1. They have low-balled me before, they will do it again.

2. They don't pay based on how much value I generate but as little as they can to prevent me from moving.

Royality is a two way street. While the company doesn't have my best interest in mind, why should I have theirs in mind? It would be foolish for me to not look around. Once I put in the effort to look around and got a better offer, I might as well leave the company for good.

Re: Thank u, next

#179

Post by norswap » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 1:31 PM UTC

Yet another Mozilla blunder. When is it going to stop? It's sad, because the world is better for having Firefox as the only competition to Chrome (and more generally Webkit/Chromium browsers).

Re: Thank u, next

#180

Post by BrendanEich » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 5:24 PM UTC

jcranmer wrote: post #152

fabrice_d wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla Corp keep painting themselves as the only bearers of the Mozilla Manifesto values. But the reality is that MoCo has done so many missteps that they have lost all credibility there. You are still relying on the same and only end user product as in 2004 and drink the coolaid of Mitchell's talks twice a year at the all hands. You are losing against chromium because gecko was never made a platform for others to u…

> the only other gecko product, FirefoxOS. Thunderbird still has more users than FirefoxOS ever did. At a technological failure, the more-or-less passive decision to abandon any embedding story for Gecko is probably Mozilla's single biggest fault. (I say more-or-less passive because the transition to Gecko 2.0 necessitated adjusting embedding hooks, and the original intent was that it would be temporary until a new e…

KaiOS has 50M users heading toward 100M. This is the lineal descendant of FirefoxOS and shows that the latter failed only due to Mozilla leadership failures. Blaming it for weakness within Firefox or non-OS platform teams is self-refuting.