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The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

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Re: The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

#181

Post by mrep »

tathougies wrote: post #177
mrep wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't quote me, but I've read many places in the US that ER's are required to take you if you are in a life threatening situation and if you cannot pay, the hospital just ends up owning the costs and then passes those costs to everyone else through insurance fees.

Is that in Japan (where the question was asked) or the United states?

Sorry, US. I updated my comment and I'm from the US but I have yet to use my personal medical care outside of my parents when I was a kid

Re: The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

#182

Post by philwelch »

pravda wrote: post #129
cameronh90 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does appear to be the case that the US funds most pharma R&D due to Americans overpaying relative to the rest of the word. In some cases (China, India) this is due to weak IP protection, but in other cases (Canada, UK, Europe) it's more to do with our governments having a stronger negotiating position and setting hard limits on what they'll spend for a given benefit to patients. Some characterise this as freeloadi…

The "freeloading" meme is the creation of public relations groups employed by the pharma industry. Drugs in the US are priced at the profit-maximizing price. That profit-maximizing price has nothing to do with how much pharma earns in other countries. And it has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of R&D. R&D is a sunk cost, has no effect on drug pricing.

And if the anticipated future profit-maximizing price of a new drug isn’t high enough, you don’t fund the R&D and the drug never gets invented.

Re: The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

#183

Post by EvanAnderson »

arcticfox wrote: post #167
joering2 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just got hemoroids frozen and cut with laser. Cost here in USA under premium insurance was $12,000. Went to Germany got it done on the same equipment in luxury stay for 14 days at $870. Plus $800 plane tickets. Meanwhile a friend of mine had a heart attack. As a Bank of America emplyee he had somewhat goog insurance that paid some. He was left with $180,000 bill.

> As a Bank of America emplyee he had somewhat goog insurance that paid some. He was left with $180,000 bill. Forgive my ignorance but how is that possible? The highest out of pocket maximums for Marketplace plans is $15700 for an entire family.

He may have been traveling when he had his heart attack: https://www.wsj.com/articles/john-stockmans-medical-bills-to...

He may have been attended-to by out-of-network practitioner: https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Out-of-Network-ER-S...

Re: The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

#184

Post by [deleted] »

arcticfox wrote: post #167
joering2 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just got hemoroids frozen and cut with laser. Cost here in USA under premium insurance was $12,000. Went to Germany got it done on the same equipment in luxury stay for 14 days at $870. Plus $800 plane tickets. Meanwhile a friend of mine had a heart attack. As a Bank of America emplyee he had somewhat goog insurance that paid some. He was left with $180,000 bill.

> As a Bank of America emplyee he had somewhat goog insurance that paid some. He was left with $180,000 bill. Forgive my ignorance but how is that possible? The highest out of pocket maximums for Marketplace plans is $15700 for an entire family.

[deleted]

Re: The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

#185

Post by bluetwo »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #128
bluetwo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free markets and regulations can co-exist. It doesn't have to be one or the other. The most successful markets are a careful balance of well crafted regulations. Healthcare in the US is not carefully balanced. BTW, hospitals in the US begin publishing their pricing data online this year. By law.

> Free markets and regulations can co-exist. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Name one country on this or any other planet where this exists. Anywhere, except some bullshit theoretical textbook funded by a think-tank with obvious conflicts of interest. > BTW, hospitals in the US begin publishing their pricing data online this year. By law. More garbage. Those aren't real prices being published, they're approxi…

> Not going to argue here about healthcare reform, though. So if you disagree, don't expect a response.

Re: The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

#186

Post by whitepoplar »

kenhwang wrote: post #162
philwelch wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite Japan's aging, heavy-smoking population, Japanese people tend to be very healthy for reasons that aren't necessarily related to their healthcare system.

And Americans tend to be overweight and unhealthy. Access to healthcare doesn't automatically shift culture to live a healthier lifestyle (and I suspect it might even do the opposite).

It would be great if gym memberships could be made free for everyone. I bet it would even be cheaper in the long run to buy an Equinox membership for every American than it would be to do nothing.

Re: The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

#187

Post by philwelch »

refurb wrote: post #116
Alex3917 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

R&D includes a lot of (most?) but not all advertising. It probably doesn't include things like running DTC ads on TV. But it does include things like: - Paying doctors to prescribe the drug to patients for "research purposes." - Paying doctors for their "valuable opinions" about the drug. - Paying for advertising to recruit patients into clinical trials. And so on. I don't think there are any industry-wide statistics…

For the first point you mean clinical trials? I wouldn’t call that advertising. The 2nd point sounds like consulting fees, not advertising. And the 3rd point is required to recruit for clinical trials. And the drug doesn’t even have a brand name at the point. Doesn’t seem like what the general public would call advertising.

I think the argument is that these activities are done in a specifically disingenuous way that achieves primarily marketing and sales goals rather than R&D goals.

Re: The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

#188

Post by bluetwo »

kodablah wrote: post #103
bluetwo wrote: post #22

Like the article says, previous research has come to the same conclusion. We pay much more, and are ranked nowhere near the top for lifespan, childhood mortality, and other measures. Obamacare was a great first step. Define what basic healthcare is and form markets that encourage apples-to-apples comparison. Let the free market work. Sucks that one party used this as a weapon to wrestle power. Oh well. Not going to a…

> Obamacare was a great first step Disagree, it was a horrible first step directed at the demand instead of the supply. In fact, I couldn't think of a worse step of reducing provider-driven costs than heaping rules on the payers (insurers and their customers) to force paying into the system without equally significant rules controlling the suppliers. Obamacare has entrenched the ones charging all this money, not alle…

> Not going to argue here about healthcare reform, though. So if you disagree, don't expect a response.

Re: The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

#189

Post by drb91 »

mikeash wrote: post #156
drb91 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nit, that’s not socialization, that’s just right to service. You still shoulder the bill entirely yourself. The only thing that approaches socialized healthcare is free flu shots.

People who get service and can’t pay effectively have their service paid for by all the other customers. That’s basically socialized, since all the other customers basically means all of us.

Well, they also get harrassed and get their credit destroyed. Hardly “effectively” socialized.

Re: The US spends more on healthcare for no gain says new report from Johns Hopkins

#190

Post by jjeaff »

grecy wrote: post #33
airstrike wrote: post #2

It's worth noting that the U.S. market does pay for the lion's share of patented drugs, effectively funding a significant portion of R&D that benefits the whole world years later when generics come into market (at least for those drugs which are not costly to manufacture, which happen to be the majority). I'm not saying this model is right. I'm just saying that doing away with it will have fundamental consequences to…

Except that every company involved in the healthcare industry in America (drug companies, insurance companies, hospitals, etc.) make hundreds of billions (or trillions) in profit each and every year. The reason for the high prices is because healthcare in the US is an extremely, extremely lucrative for-profit industry.

They have lower profit margins than most tech companies like apple.
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