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The Relentlessness of Modern Parenting

nytimes.com

61–70 of 167 posts

Re: The Relentlessness of Modern Parenting

#61
> Intensive parenting is a way for especially affluent white mothers to make sure their children are maintaining their advantaged position in society

Urgh. Really?

I think intensive parenting is an arms race, more or less. I don't know if it "works" but I think it's increasingly common mainly due to a feedback loop of parental anxiety.

I don't think it has a thing to do with race, though.

Re: The Relentlessness of Modern Parenting

#62
Looking back on my own childhood, I'm skeptical how much anything alleged to "enrich" the children actually made a difference. I recall most of all piano lessons. When I was a kid, every kid had to learn piano. Today, no adult I know ever plays piano; they forgot how because they don't like it and no one wants to hear it because it's boring. I know one serious professional musician. He taught himself guitar for our high school punk band and got super interested in guitar technique.

Now, you could say they learned "discipline" from the piano lessons. But how do we know? I don't see any relationship between who took the most piano and who became a doctor, etc. My view of piano lessons, and other enrichement, is that they are sort of homeopathy for parents' anxiety about their kids' future. Even when there is nothing to do for someone's medical condition, lots of people will turn to quack treatments out of anxiety, and these quack treatments involve a host of immeasurable concepts like "toxins" proposed to imitate the kind of causation we know of for better-known treatments. Same with piano lessons: your parents are too anxious about you to sit on their hands, so they make you practice piano and tell themselves, and each other, that you're learning "focus," some magic property that will stay in your brain one day even when they're not around. I don't buy it. Nobody made their kids take piano because they read a bunch of studies proving it makes your kid choose to go to med school or whatever; they clung to it automatically because they wanted to believe in it.

Re: The Relentlessness of Modern Parenting

#63
post #36
post #20

As a 20 something without kids, my parenting idea would be to just not give them any trauma and let them be their own people

When do you consider a child to be their own person? What about all the years before that?

Day 1. Birth. My experience is they come with personalities from the first day. They just need more help early on. My goal is to mold them into autonomous agents to act. Each kid is on that path. Age is just a number, but I'm shooting to be mostly done by the time each hits 18.

Re: The Relentlessness of Modern Parenting

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask: where and when did you grow up? Thanks. I grew up not too far from south-central Los Angeles, California, in the 1970s and early 1980s, and was shot at on two occasions by gangs. Raised by my grandparents, I was a full 'free-range' child. Thanks for your reply.

Do you got the impression they were out to get you, or were you caught in cross fire, or was it more of a "get the fuck away" kind of shooting? Just curious on someone who was there to live it. I just viewed it through the lens of MacGyver episodes from a great distance. :-)

One was a pretty typical (for the time) drive by; someone in my after school youth group wore enough of the wrong color of clothing to catch the eye of the 'other' gang. We just had Saturday game night, and so were walking to Taco Bell for our unofficial after games social. As we stood at a corner waiting for a crosswalk to turn green, two or three gangbangers in a passing car opened fire with fully automatic machine pistols. I don't talk about the results.

Another time I was hanging out near a chain link fence chatting with a couple of friends when some other guys came by on the other side, talking shit. We talked some shit back, and they threatened to come back with a shotgun. We blew them off, ignored them and continued with our chat. Well, one of them did indeed come back with a shotgun. Fortunately the weapon was loaded with bird shot, so we were only slightly injured.

An 'amusing' story:

My grandpa, who raised me, along with my grandma, listened almost nightly to the police frequencies. We heard a helicopter circling above one night (a not uncommon thing), and the cops were talking about chasing an armed suspect on foot. The 'copter was circling one street over. It's easy to tell because their floodlight constantly points to whatever the action point is below.

Suddenly, from outside, we heard a fully automatic rifle fire a long burst. Seconds later, the 'copter reported that they were taking fire, and so were forced to orbit at a higher altitude.

Crime in Southern California in the 1980s was no fucking joke.

When my grandpa passed in 2003 (grandma in 2000), my dad sold that 850 square foot house for something $500k.

Re: The Relentlessness of Modern Parenting

#65

I didn't realize it until I read this article, but this is what keeps me up at night and motivates me to spend so much time and effort on my children. Making sure my kids are successful adults and maintain the economic lifestyle my programming career currently affords them is why I send them to camps all summer long and martial arts classes in the afternoons to improve their focus. It's why my wife and I spent hours…

What makes you think that camps and classes are going to be what helps them be prepared for anything?

Re: The Relentlessness of Modern Parenting

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask: where and when did you grow up? Thanks. I grew up not too far from south-central Los Angeles, California, in the 1970s and early 1980s, and was shot at on two occasions by gangs. Raised by my grandparents, I was a full 'free-range' child. Thanks for your reply.

Do you got the impression they were out to get you, or were you caught in cross fire, or was it more of a "get the fuck away" kind of shooting? Just curious on someone who was there to live it. I just viewed it through the lens of MacGyver episodes from a great distance. :-)

> MacGyver episodes

See my other post for a substantive reply.

I watched MacGyver quite a bit as a teenager, it was fun.

But...how does MacGyver the TV show relate to violence in southern California? Thanks. (:

Re: The Relentlessness of Modern Parenting

#67

Not surprising considering for the past 2-3 generations we've been seeing kids often worse-off than their parents. Crippling student debt, insane healthcare costs, soaring housing prices in major cities. People are anxious and things are more competitive. All while worker productivity continues to increase with stagnant wages. If you look at adjusted median household income over the past 20 years its either stayed ro…

Well put. I personally would opt out of having a kid if I knew they were going to end up outside of the top 20%. I just don't want that life for them and I'm not sure I can guarantee that they end up in the top percentiles. > The wealth gap in this country is squeezing all the joy out of life for every penny its worth. Every capitalist society needs a periodical wealth tax, otherwise the natural accumulation of wealt…

Even if you are a millionaire your kid might end up penniless (cf. Great Depression or any number of squandered fortunes throughout history).

Even if you are are born in a eastern european village you might survive a world war and end up in a comfortable American middle upper class lifestyle).

You can’t guarantee anything in life, all you can do is do your best for your kid and let them fly as well as they can.

And, agreed about the wealth tax :)

Re: The Relentlessness of Modern Parenting

#68
The policy we are taking is to have specific expectations, but vast freedom outside of those expectations. We specifically are interested in allowing our child (~2) to have highly unstructured play, within specific limits.

- Child does go to specific play groups, 1-2x/wk. - Child does have to sit still and have a book read to them, several times per day. - Child does have to treat the cat right. - Child does go out to eat with us- and has to behave correctly in the restaurant.

On the other hand, child is supplied with several kinds of blocks, toy buses & trains, dolls, stuffed animals, and other bits for an imaginative play; maybe 70% of child's waking life is undirected play; 10-20% of that is parent by the side.

Child is naturally athletic & enjoys music and we plan to take them to games & orchestra - probably enroll in kid gym?.

The notion we're aiming towards is autonomy & judgement, with adequate exposure to make good decisions. Child will be administratively exposed to many things; but this mass scheduling of life and running hither and yon constantly is for the birds. Child needs to be able to put their feet up and dream languorously, thinking thoughts that aren't poured into them.

Re: The Relentlessness of Modern Parenting

#70

I didn't realize it until I read this article, but this is what keeps me up at night and motivates me to spend so much time and effort on my children. Making sure my kids are successful adults and maintain the economic lifestyle my programming career currently affords them is why I send them to camps all summer long and martial arts classes in the afternoons to improve their focus. It's why my wife and I spent hours…

I think over prepping is bad. It can be suffocating. I think kids needs a few key points at pivotal times, between these they'll probably hover around fine in the herd.
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