Apple’s Errors • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple’s Errors

#91

Post by kylec » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 7:45 PM UTC

personlurking wrote: post #12

meritt wrote: post #3

> Apple seems to have underestimated iPhone SE demand to a significant degree I would love to purchase a new iPhone (or Android) if they were to make a new device with a comparable form factor to the SE. Instead, everything has progressed to these two-handed monstrosities that have resulted in fanny packs [1] becoming fashionable again simply to hold the damn things. [1] https://www.today.com/style/fanny-packs-are-so…

Last month, a Redditor explained why the SE form factor likely won't be returning. https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/a68a1v/we_get_it_you...

That was just one person's opinion. Now that earnings are down, I'd guess that there's someone at Apple floating the idea of a releasing a small iPhone to boost sales, because there's a small but vocal minority of people that really want one and will immediately buy it.

Re: Apple’s Errors

#92

Post by nicoburns » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 7:46 PM UTC

zozbot123 wrote: post #76

robmaceachern wrote: post #32

This is a really great analysis of the situation but I think Ben, and Tim Cook in his public statements, are missing one important point: iOS 12 made the older devices (iPhone 5s, 6) run _much_ better than they were running on iOS 11 [1, 2, 3]. They improved the software so much on this iteration of iOS that they probably relieved a lot of the hardware upgrade pressure users were beginning to feel in the first half o…

> This is a really great analysis of the situation but I think Ben, and Tim Cook in his public statements, are missing one important point: iOS 12 made the older devices (iPhone 5s, 6) run _much_ better than they were running on iOS 11. They improved the software so much on this iteration of iOS that they probably relieved a lot of the hardware upgrade pressure users were beginning to feel in the first half of 2018.…

> that's just barely enough for the modern Web these days - and newer iOS apps can't be that much lighter, either!

You might be surprised. Desktop safari is significantly more resource (including memory) efficient than Chrome and Firefox. And iOS apps are written in objective-c and swift, which are also a lot more memory efficient than say Java or JavaScript.

Of course, 1GB of RAM is still pretty small. But if the idevices can last 5 years instead of 2, that would be pretty significant. I don't think anyone expects them to last forever.

Re: Apple’s Errors

#93

Post by LeicaLatte » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 7:54 PM UTC

robmaceachern wrote: post #32

This is a really great analysis of the situation but I think Ben, and Tim Cook in his public statements, are missing one important point: iOS 12 made the older devices (iPhone 5s, 6) run _much_ better than they were running on iOS 11 [1, 2, 3]. They improved the software so much on this iteration of iOS that they probably relieved a lot of the hardware upgrade pressure users were beginning to feel in the first half o…

software really is eating the world. in this case, apple's profits.

also software that causes such "harm" is typically written by someone else. it is funny seeing apple themselves write and distribute the harmful piece.

Re: Apple’s Errors

#94

Post by SimeVidas » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 7:55 PM UTC

robmaceachern wrote: post #32

This is a really great analysis of the situation but I think Ben, and Tim Cook in his public statements, are missing one important point: iOS 12 made the older devices (iPhone 5s, 6) run _much_ better than they were running on iOS 11 [1, 2, 3]. They improved the software so much on this iteration of iOS that they probably relieved a lot of the hardware upgrade pressure users were beginning to feel in the first half o…

iPhone 6 user here, can confirm. I will continue using this silly, old phone for a while longer because it still gets the job done just fine.

Re: Apple’s Errors

#95

Post by oflannabhra » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 7:55 PM UTC

robmaceachern wrote: post #32

This is a really great analysis of the situation but I think Ben, and Tim Cook in his public statements, are missing one important point: iOS 12 made the older devices (iPhone 5s, 6) run _much_ better than they were running on iOS 11 [1, 2, 3]. They improved the software so much on this iteration of iOS that they probably relieved a lot of the hardware upgrade pressure users were beginning to feel in the first half o…

I don't think this surprised Apple. In their September 2018 event [0], Lisa Jackson took the stage to say that Apple sees longer-lived devices as a goal of the company, from both a consumer and environmental standpoint. She specifically called out the renewed life that iOS 12 will bring to older devices. On top of that, at WWDC 2018 [1], Federighi heralded the new life customers will find when iOS 12 would be released to 5 year old phones.

I don't think that any of this has surprised Apple. I think they have long seen that peak iPhone (and a mature market) is coming, or even already arrived.

Apple is focusing on their install base, which is enormous (over 1.5 billion devices [2]), and is figuring out ways to leverage that advantage. They know that the upgrades will come, albeit more slowly, but in the meantime, they can provide services, accessories, and eventually new products that customers will be fully willing to pay for. I think it is obvious that there is a pretty big transition that the company is in the middle of, but I think they are clearly best positioned to take advantage of that position.

It would, frankly, be baffling for Apple to suddenly change course direction over a single quarter. I think they are setting this course (ie, longevity of devices) because they think it is the right thing to do for their customers, similar to how they uniquely ran the battery replacement program. [3]

[0] - http://live.arstechnica.com/apples-september-12-2018-gather-...

[1] - http://live.arstechnica.com/wwdc-2018/#post-1319367

[2] - http://www.asymco.com/2018/02/27/the-number/

[3] - “We did not consider in any way, shape, or form, what it would do to upgrade rates. We did it because we thought it was the right thing to do for our customers. And sitting here today, I don’t know what effect it will have. And again, it’s not and was not in our thought process of deciding to do what we’ve done.” - Tim Cook

Re: Apple’s Errors

#96

Post by josefresco » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 7:56 PM UTC

graeme wrote: post #83

zozbot123 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a really great analysis of the situation but I think Ben, and Tim Cook in his public statements, are missing one important point: iOS 12 made the older devices (iPhone 5s, 6) run _much_ better than they were running on iOS 11. They improved the software so much on this iteration of iOS that they probably relieved a lot of the hardware upgrade pressure users were beginning to feel in the first half of 2018.…

Sure, but if you were content running an iphone 6 on ios 11, then it’s certainly faster this year on 12.

Not really. Source: iPhone 6 user. Couldn't upgrade to iOS 12 because of lack of space. Finally made room and after being told 12 would speed my device I had high hopes. Turns out, I don't notice any difference. App launch times, keyboard launch times, and overall responsiveness is just barely tolerable. 6S devices feel like light speed in comparison.

Re: Apple’s Errors

#97

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 7:57 PM UTC

acdha wrote: post #87

robmaceachern wrote: post #32

This is a really great analysis of the situation but I think Ben, and Tim Cook in his public statements, are missing one important point: iOS 12 made the older devices (iPhone 5s, 6) run _much_ better than they were running on iOS 11 [1, 2, 3]. They improved the software so much on this iteration of iOS that they probably relieved a lot of the hardware upgrade pressure users were beginning to feel in the first half o…

> They improved the software so much on this iteration of iOS that they probably relieved a lot of the hardware upgrade pressure users were beginning to feel in the first half of 2018. Another other side of this is that they've given people good reasons not to upgrade: I've been surprised by the number of people who commented that the new phones are uncomfortably large to hold and, of course, a fair number of people…

[deleted]

Re: Apple’s Errors

#98

Post by aczerepinski » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 8:02 PM UTC

skellera wrote: post #27

iscrewyou wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know two people who said they won’t buy another phone until the day their SE won’t turn on. I agree, SE form factor solves a great problem for some people. Not everyone wants a big screen! Apple either isn’t making enough money on the SE, not listening to their survey group, or an executive doesn’t care. They need to fix this.

Does anyone really think Apple hasn’t done market research to determine which size phone would be best for them to sell? As mentioned in one of the other comments, SE was using the production lines of the 5/5s. It probably isn’t worth it to keep those going for an older phone and the R&D for a new smaller phone is a huge cost. I’m sure it’s been proven that most people want larger screens at this point. I mean, even…

When Steve Jobs was alive, market research didn’t dictate all these things. They built the best product possible and the ergonomics of the hand guided the shape of the phone.

Re: Apple’s Errors

#99

Post by kakaorka » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 8:02 PM UTC

ttul wrote: post #89

aylmao wrote: post #85

Not to be under-estimated either: Android in general and Chinese phones. Android has gotten pretty good. I broke my iPhone 7 earlier this year and am using a Pixel 2-- I thought I'd switch back, trade it for an X or an XS as they became available, but to my surprise I actually like it quite a bit. Many of the complaints I used to have about Android have been worked out, and there's some cool features (like Night Sigh…

I would never in my life use a Chinese phone. Chinese manufacturers are _guaranteed_ to be in the pocket of the CPC and its security services. Moreover, their record on security and privacy is poor. For a device that is so intimately tied to my personal data, the premium I pay for Apple's brand is vastly inferior to the value I would lose by constantly worrying about my privacy with a Chinese handset.

Although I prefer iPhones, I don’t think any American manafacturer is not in the pocket of the NSA.

Re: Apple’s Errors

#100

Post by robmaceachern » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 8:07 PM UTC

acdha wrote: post #87

robmaceachern wrote: post #32

This is a really great analysis of the situation but I think Ben, and Tim Cook in his public statements, are missing one important point: iOS 12 made the older devices (iPhone 5s, 6) run _much_ better than they were running on iOS 11 [1, 2, 3]. They improved the software so much on this iteration of iOS that they probably relieved a lot of the hardware upgrade pressure users were beginning to feel in the first half o…

> They improved the software so much on this iteration of iOS that they probably relieved a lot of the hardware upgrade pressure users were beginning to feel in the first half of 2018. Another other side of this is that they've given people good reasons not to upgrade: I've been surprised by the number of people who commented that the new phones are uncomfortably large to hold and, of course, a fair number of people…

Yes, I totally agree. I think there are a constellation of factors that influence the upgrade decisions of users, but I have found it surprising how much the software has been under-discussed following Apple's miss.

If someone was happy enough with their iPhone 5s, 6, or 6s running iOS 11 when the X was released (Fall 2017) then I suspect they didn't feel much more pressure to upgrade when they were running iOS 12 and the Xs was released (Fall 2018).