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$1T is leaving Britain because of Brexit

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Re: $1T is leaving Britain because of Brexit

#131

Post by throwaway-hn123 »

growlist wrote: post #115
ticmasta wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sovereign nation once again As a Canadian (and I imagine citizen of pretty much any non-european commonwealth country) I had to chuckle a bit. After being treated like a resource-extraction milking machine historically and then maintaining this pseudo-ceremonial allegiance to a royal head of state it seems funny for someone from the mothership to bemoan a loss of sovereignty and self-determination. No ill-will inte…

I'm basically a small c conservative, and I think the country is a far less pleasant place to live than when I grew up. If we want mass immigration we also need a massive house building programme, which might involve concreting over the countryside, or perhaps a proper regional policy. I don't see how we can have one without the other. If we were as big as Canada it would be a different story! I went to the beach wit…

> I'm just trying to explain that my reasons for wanting lower immigration have nothing to do with xenophobia

I'm afraid you've failed quite miserably.

Re: $1T is leaving Britain because of Brexit

#132

Post by justaguyhere »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #120
justaguyhere wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't feel bad (much) for those who voted for Brexit - all they had to do was spend 15 mins googling and thinking. Even if they didn't understand the full impact of leaving the EU, it was plain then (and now) to see it is such a bad idea from any angle. I do feel bad for those who voted to stay - they're gonna suffer now, despite voting responsibly and sensibly. I don't know how to take this - one way to look at it…

A democracy needs an informed electorate to function. By your own admission, [the majority of] those that voted Leave didn’t understand what they were voting for. By that measure, I don’t believe “democracy won”.

That is why I said I don't know how to take this.

Yes, a democracy needs an informed electorate to function. But it is the electorate's responsibility to keep themselves informed. There will always be fake news, click baits and outright wrong/illegal manoeuvers from someone or the other.

IMHO, if the electorate can't take a few mins to understand what they are voting on, they don't deserve to vote.

Re: $1T is leaving Britain because of Brexit

#133

Post by growlist »

laumars wrote: post #112
e1ven wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like his point is that even if there are fewer big banks, he might be able to buy/rent an apartment in more desirable areas of the city. I interpret his comment as pointing out a value to intangibles that are sometimes overlooked when viewing the country through a broad economic lens.

The people who will be hurt the most would be those who are at the bottom of the proverbial food chain to begin with. Desirable areas will still be expensive because people on high income or positions of power will still hold those positions. It's the lower / under paid workers who will see pay freezes and lay offs while the cost of living will continue to rise. Instead of levelling the playing field, I expect the br…

> It's the lower / under paid workers who will see pay freezes and lay offs while the cost of living will continue to rise.

But doesn't mass immigration also hurt those at the bottom? It's not the well off that are facing competition for jobs, housing etc. is it?

Re: $1T is leaving Britain because of Brexit

#134

Post by pow_pp_-1_v »

justaguyhere wrote: post #102
myrandomcomment wrote: post #5

No surprise. Passporting (allow banks to operate in all members of the EU if they are licensed in one member) is a key to all of the banks operations. Every bank based in London for that purpose now has to open a regulated branch in an EU member. The next thing to kill the market in London will be the movement of Euro clearing to an EU member. Brexit is a self inflicted shot to the head. The number of people that sup…

I don't feel bad (much) for those who voted for Brexit - all they had to do was spend 15 mins googling and thinking. Even if they didn't understand the full impact of leaving the EU, it was plain then (and now) to see it is such a bad idea from any angle. I do feel bad for those who voted to stay - they're gonna suffer now, despite voting responsibly and sensibly. I don't know how to take this - one way to look at it…

> I don't know how to take this - one way to look at it is democracy won and people spoke

Democracy failed here. People elect representatives for a reason. Normal people shouldn't be expected to understand the complexities and nuances of a public policy decision. It should have been the responsibility of the elected representatives to have reasoned discussions, to weigh the pros and cons etc. and finally make decision for the people they represent. They abdicated on their most basic duty and we are in this mess now.

Re: $1T is leaving Britain because of Brexit

#135

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

joezydeco wrote: post #119
GreaterFool wrote: post #10

> have shifted at least £800 billion ($1 trillion) worth of assets out of the country And what's the significance of that? Suppose I had $100 in a bank in UK and I moved it to a bank in Germany. Neither country is better or worse because of that. The article doesn't bother to explain the ramifications. Deals are made in UK because English law is really, really good. Having to maintain offices in EU will surely increa…

So what happens (post-Brexit) if the GBP weakens and the EUR strengthens? Does the location matter now?

Nitpick: GBP*.

Re: $1T is leaving Britain because of Brexit

#136

Post by growlist »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #130
growlist wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many people it was about regaining control of borders and reducing immigration. Personally I'm willing to trade off being a little poorer in exchange for being a sovereign nation once again, although the current direction of travel makes it look like we will be getting Brino i.e. Brexit in name only, about which by the way I'm staggered at how blithely people are willing to discard democracy when the result doesn…

Regaining control of our borders? Have you ever been to a UK border? We’re not in Shengen. You can’t just stroll across. This trope about discarding democracy is tired too. A democracy isn’t “choose once and keep forever”. We are free to change our minds. Or are you surprised that we have general elections every so often?

> This trope about discarding democracy is tired too

Imagine the contempt with which calls for a second referendum would be treated if it were remain that had won. Not to mention, we were told that the vote would settle the issue for a generation. Oh whoops, apparently only if we voted remain!

Re: $1T is leaving Britain because of Brexit

#137

Post by avmich »

tlarkworthy wrote: post #66
vmarsy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So this is like Arbitration in the US? In the UK, how are they "known to be free of political interference etc."? Is it easy for people to contest a decision that looks unfair and bring it to the regular courts ?

Yes since the Magna Carta of 1215

Is it a popular folklore or there is actual, comparable to others advantage in regard to laws?

Britain lately became known for lack of law enforcements towards dirty money. I also not sure how one can manage to claim strong laws and be a surveillance capital of, say, Europe. I'd assume that's because the situation is even worse in other places.

Re: $1T is leaving Britain because of Brexit

#138

Post by steve_gh »

growlist wrote: post #115
ticmasta wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sovereign nation once again As a Canadian (and I imagine citizen of pretty much any non-european commonwealth country) I had to chuckle a bit. After being treated like a resource-extraction milking machine historically and then maintaining this pseudo-ceremonial allegiance to a royal head of state it seems funny for someone from the mothership to bemoan a loss of sovereignty and self-determination. No ill-will inte…

I'm basically a small c conservative, and I think the country is a far less pleasant place to live than when I grew up. If we want mass immigration we also need a massive house building programme, which might involve concreting over the countryside, or perhaps a proper regional policy. I don't see how we can have one without the other. If we were as big as Canada it would be a different story! I went to the beach wit…

It's a little more nuanced than that ... the SE of England was generally the area most in favour of Remain. Pretty much all of rural England outside of the pull of London voted to Leave.

I see Brexit as the losers in the globalization push taking their revenge on the winners.

Re: $1T is leaving Britain because of Brexit

#139

Post by growlist »

pjc50 wrote: post #127
growlist wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A points based immigration policy would be a nice start. > The UK is sovereign. It's just made some international agreements to align with other countries. If you think the EU is bad for this, wait until you see things like TTIP: all of the legislative override, ability to sue the state in foreign courts etc, and none of the democracy. One wonders how those poor impoverished nations outside of the big trading blocs s…

> A points based immigration policy would be a nice start. How aware are you of the current UK visa tier system? What kinds of people do you think are currently immigrating that would not be eligible under a points based system? >One wonders how those poor impoverished nations outside of the big trading blocs survive! Generally they are poor and impoverished, yes. Or they have a deal with the EU and US. Or are tiny e…

> Generally they are poor and impoverished, yes. Or they have a deal with the EU and US. Or are tiny exceptions like Singapore.

This idea that the UK is inevitably doomed outside of the EU is such a canard - fact is, it cannot be known either way until it happens.

Re: $1T is leaving Britain because of Brexit

#140

Post by pjc50 »

growlist wrote: post #133
laumars wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who will be hurt the most would be those who are at the bottom of the proverbial food chain to begin with. Desirable areas will still be expensive because people on high income or positions of power will still hold those positions. It's the lower / under paid workers who will see pay freezes and lay offs while the cost of living will continue to rise. Instead of levelling the playing field, I expect the br…

> It's the lower / under paid workers who will see pay freezes and lay offs while the cost of living will continue to rise. But doesn't mass immigration also hurt those at the bottom? It's not the well off that are facing competition for jobs, housing etc. is it?

Every time someone tries to prove this by doing an unbiased economic investigation, it concludes that the negative effect is either nonexistent or tiny.

Housing competition is fundamentally local - everyone in the world wants London property, regardless of living there. Nobody wants houses in Stoke on Trent.

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