Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S • Hacker News Board

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#81

Post by akhilcacharya » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #12

nrb wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the vast majority of that sub-group wishes to stay and change it...

Was going to say exactly this. Disapproving massively of the current political climate in the United States and worrying about what it says about our future is not going to make me want to run away. This is my home, I want to make it better. We just took a little misstep, that's all.

Disapproving so strongly and seeing others disapprove so strongly has made me, personally, more patriotic and appreciative for the country than I used to be.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#82

Post by CydeWeys » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

the_watcher wrote: post #45

maxerickson wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Federal healthcare spending is much larger than military spending: https://media.nationalpriorities.org/uploads/total_spending_... (from https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-bud... ) It's unfortunate the chart includes social security, which isn't quite tax and spend the way most of the rest of the federal budget is.

To most people, Social Security is seen as a tax, since it comes out of your paycheck in the form of a "Social Security Tax".

To most people it is a tax, because you're paying it but not getting any benefits from it (yet). This applies generally to any form of public spending that only benefits some smaller segment of the population.

The same for Medicare; everyone pays the payroll tax but most don't get to use it. We'd have more personal sense of investment in our social programs if they helped people more widely, e.g. everyone of every age can use the healthcare they're being taxed for in countries that have nationalized it.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#83

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

m0zg wrote: post #73

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #9

1.5x the population of Canada wants to move to Canada.

They better be able to prove their skills, since Canada only accepts skilled immigrants.

Or people seeking asylum. But yes, the Venn diagram of people who answered "yes" in this poll and those who would qualify for asylum is probably small.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#84

Post by josefresco » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

malvosenior wrote: post #49

cowpig wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed]

From the article: > It's important to note that people's desire to migrate is typically much higher than their intention to do so -- as such, it is unlikely that Americans will be flocking to the Canadian border. In fact, since Trump's election, Canadian statistics show only a modest uptick in the number of Americans who have moved to Canada.

"modest uptick" != 0

Not negligible, not imperceptible ... modest.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#85

Post by bruceb » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #21

jedmeyers wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait. You don’t just walk across the border, you have to file an application and have it approved to live in Canada? Is this how a progressive nation should behave?

IIRC it's pretty common to walk across the border and then present yourself to immigration and ask for asylum. Assuming that is your only probable immigration method, since otherwise it's reputedly quite difficult to gain approval. Also, Canada handles the whole process a bit more humanely than the United States does.

are hundreds/thousands of people trying to cross in to Canada everyday? Easy when its only a few people, harder when its not.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#86

Post by megaman8 » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

greesil wrote: post #74

skh wrote: post #16

Ultimately this indicates that people aren’t satisfied with the returns on taxation. I’m all for supporting a government that supports the people. From my perspective we don’t have this and haven’t had it for some time. Other developed nations have better infrastructure, better social support system, near free higher education, free at point of contact healthcare systems. What we get in the U.S. is the most advanced…

I agree that we don't get a good return on the taxes we pay. But, defense spending is about 1/6 of the federal budget at around 3% of GDP. For comparison medicare/medicaid combined is about 5% of GDP. Apparently France spends 4% of GDP on healthcare total, not just for old people. I think the biggest problem with our system is not necessarily that defense spending is so high, but that our healthcare system is so inef…

much of the defense spending is hidden in other areas: like Dept of energy, dept of veteran affairs, homeland security, etc. So it's a lot bigger than it looks.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#87

Post by diob » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:16 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #31

skh wrote: post #16

Ultimately this indicates that people aren’t satisfied with the returns on taxation. I’m all for supporting a government that supports the people. From my perspective we don’t have this and haven’t had it for some time. Other developed nations have better infrastructure, better social support system, near free higher education, free at point of contact healthcare systems. What we get in the U.S. is the most advanced…

I would say it is dissatisfaction with the government's contract with the citizenry, combined with recent evidence suggesting that a good chunk, say half, of the population has no interest in progressing. So people who can leave for somewhere that more closely aligns with their values are doing just that. I have family here and I love the United States, I'm staying, and I hope we can make some more progress, but I to…

Right, our government is now setup to allow minority rule unfortunately. I can't foresee us moving forward when states beyond the coasts are insistent on moving backwards to a mythical idealized time.

My main reason for wanting to leave right now is the state of healthcare. I already have one "preexisting condition" out of my hands, it's called sleep apnea. I'm in shape, it's just a matter of my anatomy. My costs are relatively affordable (aside from never bothering with another sleep study since that's seen as not covered), a couple hundred dollars a year. Maybe a large purchase of a new machine every 5 to 10 years.

But I realize that even though I'm saving large chunks of money thanks to America paying more, I'm one terrible illness away from having it wiped out. I'm not a gambler by nature, so it doesn't really appeal to me. Pay me less, give me subsidized healthcare, real time off, etc. Basically, treat me more humanely.

I could care less about money I may lose due to tragedy at any moment. Especially when that crazy inner state minority will simple lambast me for not planning appropriately for my illness regardless of how much of my savings I pour into it (why didn't you save a million dollars for your ongoing cancer treatment you bum?).

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#88

Post by CydeWeys » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:16 PM UTC

uncoder0 wrote: post #36

skh wrote: post #16

Ultimately this indicates that people aren’t satisfied with the returns on taxation. I’m all for supporting a government that supports the people. From my perspective we don’t have this and haven’t had it for some time. Other developed nations have better infrastructure, better social support system, near free higher education, free at point of contact healthcare systems. What we get in the U.S. is the most advanced…

We really need to address the absolute cost of healthcare in this country before we can make any progress on nationalizing any portion of it. The pure costs are outrageous. We spend ~$10,000 per capita in 2017 vs ~$6,000 in Norway which has a similar per capita GDP. (PPP adjusted https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-... )

Nationalizing it is the single biggest possible step towards getting costs under control.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#89

Post by PakG1 » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:17 PM UTC

tristor wrote: post #57

I find it interesting how many comments here and on other sites that linked the same article talk about this being tied to concerns around how their tax dollars are spent. It seems many people are not aware that the US is one of only two countries which taxes it's citizens no matter where they reside. Leaving the US is not enough if you wish to avoid taxation, you must also acquire citizenship in another country, and…

Americans can't declare themselves as non-residents that don't need to pay tax? Canadians who work abroad can do that. And then if they ever move back home, they just have to declare residency again. It's a bit of a process to do both, of course, but it's definitely there. Without this, Canadians who work abroad also get taxed on their global income. Just if you're lucky to work in a country with which Canada has a tax treaty, you don't get double-taxed. You just pay for taxes for the difference on what you would need to have paid in Canada for the same income level if your current country has a lower tax rate.

Re: Record Numbers of Americans Want to Leave the U.S

#90

Post by tlb » Mon, Jan 07, 2019, 5:17 PM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #29

>These results are based on telephone interviews with approximately 1,000 adults per year, aged 15 and older, conducted in the U.S. They only asked 1,000 adults via phone calls? Pretty small survey but I’m not a statistician. Edit: Downvoters. Please comment. Was the survey larger? Is 1,000 a large enough sample size to make conclusions about the whole US? This is HN please engage.

1000 gets you down to 3% margin of sampling error.

Asking the question in different ways can affect the results a lot more.