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Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

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Re: Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

#201

Post by icebraining »

ShakataGaNai wrote: post #13

While I love Linux, I think this is a totally fair "state of the union". At the end of the day, gaming or kickstarters or similar... are a business. You need to figure out your ROI (Return On Investment). It doesn't many any logical sense to spend a huge amount of time on a platform that nets you tiny amounts of sales (and gains you a huge amount of support costs). This is why gaming on the Mac is only now starting t…

They said the problem wasn't fragmentation of distros, but the versions of graphic drivers, and it's not like Windows machines are all on the same version of the same driver.

Re: Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

#202

Post by ergo14 »

bluedino wrote: post #111
klodolph wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electron is basically Node+Chrome. There’s no way in hell it’s appropriate for writing VSTs.

In about ten years someone will post one to HN. Written in Javascript.

And it will use 1TB of ram to run.

Re: Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

#203

Post by jcelerier »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #177
FigBug wrote: post #62

I work for a small company that produces a DAW and VST plugins. Supporting Linux is a huge amount of work compared to Windows and Mac. The main issue is that 'Linux' is not a thing you can support. You have to pick the distros you want to support, and then once you've picked a distro, what versions you want to support. And you need to use the C++ version that ships with that distro, so if you want to support old vers…

Why wouldn't you just create a statically linked binary?

AFAIK you can't call dlopen from a static binary, and if it's a DAW you have to support dlopen in order to open the VST plug-ins

Re: Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

#204

Post by kurtisc »

kosievdmerwe wrote: post #28
mrspeaker wrote: post #15

This is just an out-of-context tweet (well, the context is there - it's a reply to another tweet, which is out of context)... so perhaps it was just auto-crash reports, but I wonder if you get more tickets from Linux users, because Linux users are more likely to file tickets? When something crashes on my partner's computer she yells at it and restarts it. When something crashes on my computer I spend an hour trying t…

They still represent a vastly disproportionate amount of work for how much extra money they get you. They get you 0.1% extra sales, but they cost you 25% (= 20/80*100) extra support work. And this is nevermind the extra time spent during development. Your point would hold if the issues reported by Linux users would also fix issues on Windows. Some issues would occur on both systems, but I bet the vast majority is wei…

Why do they have to do the work?

If someone releases a game and I play it, maybe I get a Linux-only bug where the audio sometimes becomes static-y until I reset (real world example). If I file a bug for that, they probably won't fix it and I probably will (and did) continue playing. I lose nothing, they lose the time to triage a bug.

If I can't launch the game and I file a ticket, it's probably because I either want to exchange my money for a working game - which on my own might not be enough incentive for them, and that's OK - or because I have to do it because of asinine refunds policies.

The developer is framing bug reports as a burden, when really they're neutral or a benefit - the bug that exists because of the lack of platform-specific work is the burden. That's understandable, there are a lot of platforms and not a lot of paying players.

If bug reports are not a benefit, perhaps software will stop trying to send usage data back home? I doubt it.

Re: Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

#205

Post by kurtisc »

p0nce wrote: post #66
jenscow wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is the perfect example of how there's an "invisible" demand demand for gaming on Linux. Nobody can see it, because those who want it will mostly make do with Windows.

Invisible demand is undistinguishable from no demand, as far as B2C is concerned.

I agree that they can't distinguish it but there was no visible demand for an iPhone before the iPhone.

Re: Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

#206

Post by H1Supreme »

wheelerwj wrote: post #103
zeroname wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're in denial. If developers need to get this, that and the other thing right specifically for Linux , but it's still only 0.1% of sales, then it's just not worth doing - even if there aren't any bugs.

100% this. source: - am a business person - am a developer - am a linux users - am a linux gamer I love the idea of being able to game and work/dev on the same machine. But its not the current reality and its not the reality of the near future. Ive recently settled for macos because even though it doesn't offer optimal solutions for anything, it offers the really nice solutions for everything. I tried linux gaming fo…

Settled on MacOs for gaming? I built a Windows PC (for gaming only) because I was tired of every title I wanted to play being exclusive to Windows. Plus graphics card support is much better on Windows than everything else.

Re: Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

#208

Post by FigBug »

jcelerier wrote: post #200
FigBug wrote: post #62

I work for a small company that produces a DAW and VST plugins. Supporting Linux is a huge amount of work compared to Windows and Mac. The main issue is that 'Linux' is not a thing you can support. You have to pick the distros you want to support, and then once you've picked a distro, what versions you want to support. And you need to use the C++ version that ships with that distro, so if you want to support old vers…

I am developing an open-source DAW with Qt ( https://ossia.io ), to solve the problem you mentioned I used AppImage with great success - of course you have to ship all your libs, but that's what you have to do on macOS and Windows too anyways.

Do you ship any plugins? Do you do a separate AppImage for each plugin?

Re: Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

#209

Post by gmueckl »

kosievdmerwe wrote: post #28
mrspeaker wrote: post #15

This is just an out-of-context tweet (well, the context is there - it's a reply to another tweet, which is out of context)... so perhaps it was just auto-crash reports, but I wonder if you get more tickets from Linux users, because Linux users are more likely to file tickets? When something crashes on my partner's computer she yells at it and restarts it. When something crashes on my computer I spend an hour trying t…

They still represent a vastly disproportionate amount of work for how much extra money they get you. They get you 0.1% extra sales, but they cost you 25% (= 20/80*100) extra support work. And this is nevermind the extra time spent during development. Your point would hold if the issues reported by Linux users would also fix issues on Windows. Some issues would occur on both systems, but I bet the vast majority is wei…

Historically, that 0.1% income claim has been disproven a couple of times. Some indies reported a pretty even split between Windows, MacOS and Linux and even a willingness for Linux gamers to pay more. But that was before Steam for Linux, so I do not know how that has changed things. Just wanted to throw that out there.

Re: Game dev: Linux users were only 0.1% of sales but 20% of crashes and tickets

#210

Post by madez »

wtracy wrote: post #183
madez wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is strictly better to be working on a new game than to improve incredibly niche support for existing products I'm not sure about this one. Compare Ferals and Ubers approach as two data points.

AAA games rely on a single purchase fee for revenue. Once sales taper off because the game isn't hot and new anymore, there's nothing to be gained from further investment. (Ever notice how games steadily decrease in price the first few years after release?) Uber gets recurring revenue from their app, so expecting them to provide updates is like expecting a rental property owner to maintain the property--entirely reas…

If their one shot release isn't good enough, they deserve all the flak they are getting. I do have empathy with them getting frustrated, but the root cause is their approach.
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