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Chromium blacklists Nouveau

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Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#331

Post by rincebrain »

apatters wrote: post #296
BurningCycles wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>which is simply that Nvidia refuses to do a good job of supporting Linux in any way. I really dislike the way Nvidia makes it difficult for projects like Nouveau to reverse engineer an open driver, however I don't understand what you mean by poor support for their Linux driver, it's probably the one thing I can't fault them for as it is performing very well and stable. I'm with you on not buying NVidia products thou…

YMMV I suppose. Some people seem to have good experiences with their driver but mine have been terrible. I've used Ubuntu as my daily driver for 7 years now and Nvidia's driver has been the #1 source of crashes and configuration problems (half of the time I can't even get 3d accel working with it turned on, spend hours trying different versions that are reported on some forum to have fixed some problem but they don't…

FWIW it's quite possible that's not Linux-specific, a bunch of people have problems with NVIDIA driver crashes on, say, Windows too.

There's a reason Microsoft shimmed the ability for the display driver to crash and restart without taking out the rest of Windows...

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#332

Post by vetinari »

monocasa wrote: post #273
vetinari wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the derivation argument (that would be forcing GPL on Nvidia, which they want to counter, of course). This is about GPL infrigment; you can combine GPL licensed code with differently licensed code, but only in your privacy, without distributing the result to others. Once you would distribute the result, you would be breaking GPL, thus having no right to distribute.

The GPLv2 literally defines itself in relation to trees of derived works: > The "Program", below, refers to any such program or work, and a "work based on the Program" means either the Program or any derivative work under copyright law: that is to say, a work containing the Program or a portion of it, either verbatim or with modifications and/or translated into another language. The argument that I've is that even wh…

GPL defines itself by four essential freedoms.

Your argument is, why some piece of software should (or should not) be relicensed to GPL.

My argument is, that since that piece of software is currently not GPL licensed; avoids the relicensing topics and explores how to solve the current situation wrt distribution of the combined work. Use by the end-user is non-issue, due to freedom 0.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#333

Post by vfq »

magicalist wrote: post #308
Dylan16807 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We agree Nouveau is completely blacklisted right? That's the main problem here. And the test suite failed on a minor issue where the cause was uncertain, which gets in the way of checking for the bigger definitely-the-driver problem.

If you can hang the GPU with regular webgl content, that's not a minor issue.

That's the reason I have webgl disabled even though I'm on Windows with a supported driver. It opens a gaping security/DoS hole without any benefit (do you ever see webgl used in any website?)

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#334

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

peterwwillis wrote: post #252

(off-topic rant) As a Linux user for over 15 years, this is one of the main reasons I am replacing Linux on my next machine, probably with Windows (sigh). Maybe it's just me getting old, but I'm done screwing around with computers to get them to do what they are supposed to do. It's frustrating and embarrassing. It's not just that some drivers or hardware have obvious problems. It's virtually impossible to get a syst…

This doesn't reflect my experience at all. As a Linux user for 20 years I've had my fair share of times when I was ready to throw in the towel, but the last 3 years or so have renewed my faith in the OS, particularly the big mainstream distros like Fedora and Ubuntu. I can't remember the last time I ran into a big system-wide breaking problem.

Not wanting to play fanboy but I was a huge fan of Windows 10 throughout the prerelease and for a good while after release, but it seems to be going downhill in recent updates. It seems like now would be the absolute worst time to switch back.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#335

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

Ayyar wrote: post #258

As a Linux user, I am happy about this change because Nouveau is just not an acceptable driver. I hope that this puts pressure on both Nvidia and Ubuntu to have a better default.

Agreed. It's very easy to install the proprietary driver in Ubuntu and in my experience it Just Works™. Why not default to that? The vast majority of Ubuntu users aren't open source evangelists who'd choose to use an inferior driver purely for ideological reasons.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#336

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

doublepg23 wrote: post #241
_noqo wrote: post #204

Slightly unrelated but can anyone speculate on the reasons why Nvidia doesn't open source its drivers? I'm curious.

My understanding is _a lot_ of stuff in Nvidia drivers isn't _technically_ owned by them. As in they license out A company to make Y thing with Z license. After 20+ years of legacy those weird licenses add up, and no-one feels comfortable with releasing the code. Whether or not that's true? Hard to say... For comparison AMD has been (since 2015) working hard to make nearly all parts of their drivers upstream in some…

When the question of "Why not just open source it?" comes up this is nearly always the answer.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#337

Post by pantalaimon »

vetinari wrote: post #61
jandrese wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression was that the 17.10 Weyland stuff was kind of a mess so the switch is probably premature at this point.

Fedora is Wayland-by-default for several releases already.

Fedora is a bleeding edge distribution whose sole purpose is to test out new features.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#338

Post by pantalaimon »

bubblethink wrote: post #34
monocasa wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What else are they going to ship ? Including Nvidia's binary driver by default. Obvs Debian, gNewSense, and GUIX can't do that, but since when have corps cared about them? Like, don't get me wrong, I'm a FOSS or GTFO kind of guy, running Debian and Replicant, but shipping proprietary drivers by default is what chrome is hinting at obviously.

Beyond the whole foss aspect, there are good technical reasons too. For instance, blob won't work with wayland (at least right now AFAIK), and ubuntu was (is) debating switching to wayland as default.

> blob won't work with wayland (at least right now AFAIK)

AFAIK it works with Gnome's Wayland Implementation, but not with the one from KDE.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#339

Post by smueller1234 »

loeg wrote: post #208
xyzzyz wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and the distributor or administrator is free to rebuild the browser or just set the flag to disable blacklisting. It’s only default behavior that changed.

Chrome has the special sauce — distributors and administrators cannot rebuild it, only Chromium.

Is that different than the branding/trademark issue that Firefox also had for years?

(Not bring cynical, I genuinely don't know.)

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#340

Post by slezyr »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #278

The author, Ilia, noticed that this is on HN and responded in the mailing list thread. I don't know if I agree with the take, but I'll repost because I found it interesting. --- I've glanced at the HN discussion about this situation [...] and it does seem like people are focusing on the wrong thing... the important bit isn't that nouveau crashes and burns in some situations—everyone already knew that, including the u…

They already do this with fonts.
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