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Chromium blacklists Nouveau

lists.freedesktop.org

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Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#252
(off-topic rant)

As a Linux user for over 15 years, this is one of the main reasons I am replacing Linux on my next machine, probably with Windows (sigh). Maybe it's just me getting old, but I'm done screwing around with computers to get them to do what they are supposed to do. It's frustrating and embarrassing.

It's not just that some drivers or hardware have obvious problems. It's virtually impossible to get a system where all of the components have vendor-supported open-source drivers, or, when they exist, that a distro supports them out of the box. Many components' drivers only officially support two operating systems. If they don't support your operating system (Linux), then when you have a problem, you're SOL. It's like buying a car that when the transmission blows, you need to hire a mechanical engineer to reverse-engineer it. Better start taking the bus to work, because this could take a while.

Some laptops (about 9 product lines from 3 vendors) make official Linux distro releases available. So you're stuck with a small selection of machines and basically only one distro. Even if that is ok with you, the drivers still won't all be vendor-supported open-source. And on top of that, Linux may have wacky, constantly changing ways of handling the hardware, like hybrid GPU support, or low power mode for Intel wifi chips. Your machine will always be an awkward stepchild.

A limited hardware selection isn't good. Laptops are hard to design. There are always design and procurement tradeoffs, and the less tradeoffs they make, the more expensive it gets. So to get a good experience on a good machine, you need to buy the most expensive one. At that point you might as well buy a Mac.

Finally, there's actual user experience. I've used several distros and environments the past few years, and they all had pitiful user experiences on my laptops. CPU scaling on battery/AC doesn't work out of the box, most of my media keys don't work, hybrid GPU takes a computer science degree to get working properly (with the right combination of drivers and software), echoing the wrong value to a /sys/ entry that had no kernel documentation permanently fixed the cpu fan at top speed, and the latest vanilla kernels with an old kernel config simply won't boot.

I know this isn't everyone's experience, but the only reason I'd recommend a Linux desktop is if they were looking for a complicated new hobby.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#253
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Chromium should direct these users to the right place and close their ticket.

That is a "should" based on your feelings about Nvidia, not about what is the correct decision for users. They are falling back to software rendering when the GPU driver does not properly support the hardware acceleration. That's not uncommon, and it's certainly not the outrage you are trying to make it out to be here. Everybody gets it, you disagree with Nvidia's decision to not have open-source drivers. Not everyon…

>That is a "should" based on your feelings about Nvidia, not about what is the correct decision for users.

No, it's not. If you encounter a bug in a piece of software, you should report it to the maintainers of that software. That's true even for, say, bugs found in the Nvidia proprietary driver. Expecting Chromium to fix it is expecting them to do more work, which is the exact thing others have railed on me for "expecting" from them (which I haven't, to be clear once again).

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#254
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the market share were compelling enough, couldn’t some other maintainer step up and do this work? OSS doesn’t necessarily mean support for everything under the sun at all costs; Chromium may be open source but that doesn’t mean they have carte blanche from Google to test every possible combination of distro and GPU.

Why should those would-be maintaners help Google? There's always Firefox to fix.

[deleted]

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression was that the 17.10 Weyland stuff was kind of a mess so the switch is probably premature at this point.

Fedora is Wayland-by-default for several releases already.

I had a handful of laptops at work that were briefly on 17.10 (because 16.04 had a showstopping bug for them) and the graphics were a complete headache until I switched them to X. Luckily 18.04 reverted to X and made my life easier.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#256

(off-topic rant) As a Linux user for over 15 years, this is one of the main reasons I am replacing Linux on my next machine, probably with Windows (sigh). Maybe it's just me getting old, but I'm done screwing around with computers to get them to do what they are supposed to do. It's frustrating and embarrassing. It's not just that some drivers or hardware have obvious problems. It's virtually impossible to get a syst…

> The only reason I'd recommend a Linux desktop is if they were looking for a complicated new hobby.

Not sure if this was just a typo and you meant "laptop", but I imagine most of the problems you're describing could be avoided on a self-built desktop, because you can choose all the hardware for compatibility.

I haven't used Linux seriously in years, but this is how I'm able to make Hackintosh work without constant fiddling, which all logic dictates should be more difficult than Linux.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#257
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the chrome team doesn't have the resources for testing the most common Linux configurations, it's not a good sign. Linux market share is low but it's a useful signifier.

you're the only one saying the don't. they are saying the most common linux configuration causes issues so blacklist the buggy driver in it they are also saying their that driver may work fine on some less common linux configurations, and the chrome team does not have the resources to test those. you are literally saying they are saying the opposite of what they said, then blaming them for it.

They were using "not enough resources" to support the idea of blacklisting. If they meant it as you say, that means they're blanketly blacklisting the most common config despite having the resources to test it, which is even worse.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#258
As a Linux user, I am happy about this change because Nouveau is just not an acceptable driver.

I hope that this puts pressure on both Nvidia and Ubuntu to have a better default.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#259
Nouveau is the joke.

It _still_ doesn’t work with Pascal cards, which are 3 years old now. Not to mention newer Turing cards. It’s only good for some obsolete hardware more than two generations ago. The first thing I have to do before installing fresh Ubuntu or Fedora is looking up how to blacklist nouveau, as the system won’t even boot otherwise.

It’s time to deprecate it for good everywhere.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#260
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The proprietary version is "if you don't like it, learn to like it."

Which is the same as the open source version?

No, with open source you have the choice to do or pay someone for the work. With closed source you get what the devs give you.
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