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Chromium blacklists Nouveau

lists.freedesktop.org

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Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#181

Post by int_19h »

bubblethink wrote: post #34
monocasa wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What else are they going to ship ? Including Nvidia's binary driver by default. Obvs Debian, gNewSense, and GUIX can't do that, but since when have corps cared about them? Like, don't get me wrong, I'm a FOSS or GTFO kind of guy, running Debian and Replicant, but shipping proprietary drivers by default is what chrome is hinting at obviously.

Beyond the whole foss aspect, there are good technical reasons too. For instance, blob won't work with wayland (at least right now AFAIK), and ubuntu was (is) debating switching to wayland as default.

If Nouveau isn't working all that well, then clearly a switch to a new graphics stack that would require it is waaay premature, given how prevalent NVIDIA graphics hardware is.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#182

Post by bubblethink »

ec109685 wrote: post #128
vetinari wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't, for the same reason you can't ship ZFS. The combining of proprietary and GPL code has to be made by the user and the result is un-distributable. That's why distributions cannot ship it. What they can do is to make the above step easy (which Ubuntu does).

This isn’t correct. WiFi router ships with GPL Linux and proprietary router software. The company / foundation creating the distribution just needs to have a license for the proprietary bits.

No, that's not entirely true either. Depending on where the proprietary bits are, it's the other side that is the problem. It is a violation of the GPL. So the usual workaround is to shift the responsibility to the user so that incompliant stuff is done by the user by the way of a script that runs on the user's behalf.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#183

Post by xyzzyz »

loeg wrote: post #180
ajross wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Chromium is free in the GNU sense, which is what I meant. You don't whine at open source providers to support features you want, it's bad form. Go fix it yourself, or use hardware that doesn't require this kind of hacky reverse engineering.

It's fairly uncommon for open source software to blacklist components that (attempt to) implement a compatible interface. Usually selecting an appropriate hardware driver is left in the hands of the distribution or administrator.

Yes, and the distributor or administrator is free to rebuild the browser or just set the flag to disable blacklisting. It’s only default behavior that changed.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#184

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

Operyl wrote: post #173
ddevault wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you deliberately omit the end of that quote to make your point look better? I gave them an out: a demand with an out is not a demand. >If they don't want to put the work in, then they should just leave well enough alone. nouveau doesn't crash, but some cards may experience occasional glitches. That's something you need to take up with Ubuntu, not Chromium.

I'm demanding you not do the same in your own software, by this logic. You've done the same crap in the past, man: https://drewdevault.com/2017/10/26/Fuck-you-nvidia.html

Like I said to your other comment:

>The Nvidia driver does not "work" in my project. I have added no code which explicitly blacklists it, and the day Nvidia releases a driver which implements the required APIs it will work with no changes in my code.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#186

Post by [deleted] »

ddevault wrote: post #179
Operyl wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get you have an axe[0] to grind with NVIDIA, but is attacking people trying to mitigate around a broken driver really the right direction? By your message, we should also be "pissed off" at you for disabling a driver that "works" in your project too. [0]: https://drewdevault.com/2017/10/26/Fuck-you-nvidia.html

The Nvidia driver does not "work" in my project. I have added no code which explicitly blacklists it, and the day Nvidia releases a driver which implements the required APIs it will work with no changes in my code.

[deleted]

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#187

Post by loeg »

vetinari wrote: post #61
jandrese wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression was that the 17.10 Weyland stuff was kind of a mess so the switch is probably premature at this point.

Fedora is Wayland-by-default for several releases already.

Sort of. It falls back to X for drivers that don't support Wayland, which has included nvidia for a long time. (Maybe there is some progress there more recently.) And the proprietary nvidia driver is widely used.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#188

Post by okl »

nolok wrote: post #9

For anyone interested, the link really should be the full bug report: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=876523 The current link says it as if Chrome was not being fair, but reading their reasoning it makes total sense. Key quote from said bug report: > We thought about blacklisting nouveau driver long time ago, and decided to let more adventurous users to play around. Now that Ubuntu ships with no…

Because it shows that there are different opinions about what a user can reasonably expect, the key quote for me is the following:

> Please remove the blacklist as all Nouveau users expect this corrupted behaviour. If at all possible it may be worthwhile to let users know it doesn’t have to be this bad if they flip to the binary driver. Perhaps a pop up letting them know?

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#189

Post by murderfs »

lstodd wrote: post #157
bobthepanda wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the market share were compelling enough, couldn’t some other maintainer step up and do this work? OSS doesn’t necessarily mean support for everything under the sun at all costs; Chromium may be open source but that doesn’t mean they have carte blanche from Google to test every possible combination of distro and GPU.

Why should those would-be maintaners help Google? There's always Firefox to fix.

Firefox disables GPU acceleration on Linux entirely, largely for the same reasons.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#190

Post by loeg »

geofft wrote: post #155
vetinari wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

llvmpipe is the gpu part, not the display part of the graphic card. Otherwise, when using it in KVM VM, it can run the desktop compositor quite nicely.

But that's the part that's crashing. I'm suggesting Chrome use llvmpipe to do whatever they needed hardware acceleration for, generate a single boring texture on a single big rectangle, and pass that through to the graphics driver. That way Chrome itself isn't loading the Nouveau libGL and is much more insulated from incompatibilities between Chrome and Nouveau, whosever fault it might be.

WebGL requires far more than just blitting onto a single boring texture.
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