Chromium blacklists Nouveau • Hacker News Board

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#41

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:22 PM UTC

nickysielicki wrote: post #32

bhaak wrote: post #21

Both projects seem to put the blame on the other project. IMO, there are at least two other factions that can be blamed equally well. First, nvidia for not providing OSS drivers and second, the user who runs an OS on hardware that can't be properly supported on this OS at the moment. For years I have the rule that I prefer hardware that has proper Linux support. Even going a bit further that I try not to buy hardware…

> nvidia for not providing OSS drivers It's worse than this. Nvidia does not merely not provide open source drivers, they actively preclude work on Nouveau. Phoronix link: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Nouveau-...

[deleted]

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#42

Post by ahmedalsudani » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:23 PM UTC

ddevault wrote: post #26

From: Drew DeVault To: graphics-dev@chromium.org Subject: nouveau blacklisted in Chromium I'm writing to complain regarding the decision to blacklist nouveau in Chromium. You're creating a hostile relationship with one of the most important projects on Linux. If you do anything about this problem, you should be using your influence to pressure Nvidia into being a better citizen on Linux. Hell, you could even sponsor…

[Clarification: at the time I was writing this comment, parent referred to the team that closed the bug as sons of bitches]

The language you use is unnecessary. (Don't mean this in the blanket sense -- calling a SOB a SOB is fine -- but in this particular case.)

The Chrome team was receiving bug reports due to driver issues, and now this driver is the default. They can either compromise the experience for some Ubuntu users (with crashes, not slowdowns) or blacklist the driver or fix the driver.

If you don't mind the possibility of your driver crashing, you are free to instruct chrome to ignore the blacklist, something I personally did for some time.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#43

Post by bubblethink » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:25 PM UTC

ac29 wrote: post #29

bubblethink wrote: post #10

This sucks. Chromium doesn't do accelerated video decode for intel on linux either. And now this. What's the AMD scene like ?

Chromium seems to do accelerated video decode with Intel GPU on Linux for me: Graphics Feature Status Canvas: Hardware accelerated Flash: Hardware accelerated Flash Stage3D: Hardware accelerated Flash Stage3D Baseline profile: Hardware accelerated Compositing: Hardware accelerated Multiple Raster Threads: Enabled Native GpuMemoryBuffers: Software only. Hardware acceleration disabled Out-of-process Rasterization: Disa…

I haven't been following that bug, but a couple of things. Did you ignore-blacklists ? If you do ignore-blacklists, it overrides some stuff, but not everything. Also, the about:gpu page is not entirely accurate (particularly after ignore-blacklists) from what I remember. I think you should play a video and go to chrome://media-internals to figure out which path it is using. There have also been patches to enable acceleration for intel, but not merged upstream. So if you got a patched version, or your distro did that for you, it could also work. Finally, it works on chromeOS, which also uses Intel hardware, but that's because google supports chromeOS.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#44

Post by emersion » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:29 PM UTC

moonbug wrote: post #16

cheald wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amdgpu drivers in Linux are fantastic these days. Works out of the box with most hardware. No proprietary binaries needed, other than the firmware blobs. AMD is doing a really solid job of supporting their Linux user base.

Nvidia also does an excellent job of supporting linux. It's just not open source.

Their driver is really behind in terms of supporting newer libdrm features. It's also not well integrated in the ecosystem. They basically don't talk to the other Linux graphics devs.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#45

Post by ryanobjc » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:29 PM UTC

ddevault wrote: post #26

From: Drew DeVault To: graphics-dev@chromium.org Subject: nouveau blacklisted in Chromium I'm writing to complain regarding the decision to blacklist nouveau in Chromium. You're creating a hostile relationship with one of the most important projects on Linux. If you do anything about this problem, you should be using your influence to pressure Nvidia into being a better citizen on Linux. Hell, you could even sponsor…

Why do you expect it to be rolled back? What evidence leads you to believe that?

Also, with this email it seems it is you who is turning a routine technical decision into a hostile relationship. As they say, them fighting words.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#46

Post by Sir_Cmpwn » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:30 PM UTC

ahmedalsudani wrote: post #42

ddevault wrote: post #26

From: Drew DeVault To: graphics-dev@chromium.org Subject: nouveau blacklisted in Chromium I'm writing to complain regarding the decision to blacklist nouveau in Chromium. You're creating a hostile relationship with one of the most important projects on Linux. If you do anything about this problem, you should be using your influence to pressure Nvidia into being a better citizen on Linux. Hell, you could even sponsor…

[Clarification: at the time I was writing this comment, parent referred to the team that closed the bug as sons of bitches] The language you use is unnecessary. (Don't mean this in the blanket sense -- calling a SOB a SOB is fine -- but in this particular case.) The Chrome team was receiving bug reports due to driver issues, and now this driver is the default. They can either compromise the experience for some Ubuntu…

Here's why I used that language (and though I edited the comment, it was not because I rethought the use of the phrase): it is not the Chromium team's place to make this decision, and this decision actively harms the health of the Linux ecosystem. The decision of which driver to use is up to the user and up to the distro, and Chromium has absolutely no right to interfere with that. Nvidia is one of the worst actors on the Linux scene, and overstepping their bounds to prop them up is despicable.

Imagine if Google had blocked Tor users in China in favor of Project Dragonfly instead. The attitude of Chromium in this matter is directly supporting bad actors who actively do harm to their users and to the rest of the world around them. That's why they're sons of bitches.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#47

Post by zozbot123 » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:30 PM UTC

nickysielicki wrote: post #32

bhaak wrote: post #21

Both projects seem to put the blame on the other project. IMO, there are at least two other factions that can be blamed equally well. First, nvidia for not providing OSS drivers and second, the user who runs an OS on hardware that can't be properly supported on this OS at the moment. For years I have the rule that I prefer hardware that has proper Linux support. Even going a bit further that I try not to buy hardware…

> nvidia for not providing OSS drivers It's worse than this. Nvidia does not merely not provide open source drivers, they actively preclude work on Nouveau. Phoronix link: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Nouveau-...

Well, not quite. The charitable way to put it is that they are requiring signed firmware in hardware, in order to help stem fraud by 3rd party resellers (where some card model X is sold to naïve buyers as a more desirable model Y, with a hacked firmware to match) and project noveau is obviously impacted.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#48

Post by bhaak » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:30 PM UTC

nickysielicki wrote: post #32

bhaak wrote: post #21

Both projects seem to put the blame on the other project. IMO, there are at least two other factions that can be blamed equally well. First, nvidia for not providing OSS drivers and second, the user who runs an OS on hardware that can't be properly supported on this OS at the moment. For years I have the rule that I prefer hardware that has proper Linux support. Even going a bit further that I try not to buy hardware…

> nvidia for not providing OSS drivers It's worse than this. Nvidia does not merely not provide open source drivers, they actively preclude work on Nouveau. Phoronix link: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Nouveau-...

Ouch, that's mean. IMHO the only way to react to that is to close down shop. Ideally including Linux throwing out support for Nvidia cards.

I have a strong opinion on this as I was involved a few years ago in the Kindle homebrew community. After a while I decided that my time could be used better than on a product by a company that tries to prevent us from making his product better and more interesting to its users.

There is so much energy and time wasted when you have to fight against the manufacturing company and in the case of a graphics card, the result is that it just works as well as the other graphics card option that is fully supported OOTB. And then that's just for a piece of hardware that you can replace on average for a few hundred bucks.

Is that really worth the hassle?

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#49

Post by Sir_Cmpwn » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:30 PM UTC

ryanobjc wrote: post #45

ddevault wrote: post #26

From: Drew DeVault To: graphics-dev@chromium.org Subject: nouveau blacklisted in Chromium I'm writing to complain regarding the decision to blacklist nouveau in Chromium. You're creating a hostile relationship with one of the most important projects on Linux. If you do anything about this problem, you should be using your influence to pressure Nvidia into being a better citizen on Linux. Hell, you could even sponsor…

Why do you expect it to be rolled back? What evidence leads you to believe that? Also, with this email it seems it is you who is turning a routine technical decision into a hostile relationship. As they say, them fighting words.

Yes, like North Korea's rocket launches are routine technical missions, too. Chromium is slinging mud at nouveau and I can't stand for that.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#50

Post by StreamBright » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:31 PM UTC

#year-of-the-linux-desktop

On a more serious note what is the motivation for Nouveau? The drivers provided by Nvidia are not good enough or we just need an opensource alternative?