Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Taxpayers Should Never Subsidize Stadiums

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 296 posts

Re: Taxpayers Should Never Subsidize Stadiums

#11

Post by misterprime »

ams6110 wrote: post #7
ajross wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would one propose to make it illegal for an elected government to finance construction of a public building? I mean, yeah, sports stadiums are wasteful. But how would you draft that such that it wouldn't eliminate libraries and museums? I mean, I agree with you in spirit but at the end of the day the whole point of a democratic government is that it's empowered to work to better our collective lives. And that has…

> But how would you draft that such that it wouldn't eliminate libraries and museums Maybe we should. These days, public libraries are little more than homeless shelters. I haven't been to one in at least 5 years for that reason, and printed books are largely irrelevant in today's world anyway. Museums could be operated by private non-profits and foundations. No need to have taxpayers directly finance their construct…

>little more than homeless shelters.

Ouch. True, but ouch.

Re: Taxpayers Should Never Subsidize Stadiums

#12

Post by landryraccoon »

mlinksva wrote: post #2

Needs to be made illegal (not just stadiums) http://www.governing.com/gov-institute/on-leadership/col-eco... or at least not federally subsidized https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/134... https://www.goodjobsfirst.org/ is a good general resource on the issue.

The voters have to achieve consensus that sports stadiums aren’t worth it first. Democracy doesn’t really have easy shortcuts, educating voters is hard but it has to be done.

You can’t make something illegal if the majority of voters want it. Until voters stop wanting them publicly subsidized stadiums will continue to be built.

Re: Taxpayers Should Never Subsidize Stadiums

#13

Post by jimhefferon »

jahewson wrote: post #5
ajross wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would one propose to make it illegal for an elected government to finance construction of a public building? I mean, yeah, sports stadiums are wasteful. But how would you draft that such that it wouldn't eliminate libraries and museums? I mean, I agree with you in spirit but at the end of the day the whole point of a democratic government is that it's empowered to work to better our collective lives. And that has…

Simple: make them free to enter.

Museums aren't free to enter.

Re: Taxpayers Should Never Subsidize Stadiums

#14

Post by KingMachiavelli »

ams6110 wrote: post #7
ajross wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would one propose to make it illegal for an elected government to finance construction of a public building? I mean, yeah, sports stadiums are wasteful. But how would you draft that such that it wouldn't eliminate libraries and museums? I mean, I agree with you in spirit but at the end of the day the whole point of a democratic government is that it's empowered to work to better our collective lives. And that has…

> But how would you draft that such that it wouldn't eliminate libraries and museums Maybe we should. These days, public libraries are little more than homeless shelters. I haven't been to one in at least 5 years for that reason, and printed books are largely irrelevant in today's world anyway. Museums could be operated by private non-profits and foundations. No need to have taxpayers directly finance their construct…

Libraries provide dozens of services to those in low-income areas. Lots of people utilize the library for internet service.

Re: Taxpayers Should Never Subsidize Stadiums

#15

Post by surfmike »

ajross wrote: post #3
mlinksva wrote: post #2

Needs to be made illegal (not just stadiums) http://www.governing.com/gov-institute/on-leadership/col-eco... or at least not federally subsidized https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/134... https://www.goodjobsfirst.org/ is a good general resource on the issue.

How would one propose to make it illegal for an elected government to finance construction of a public building? I mean, yeah, sports stadiums are wasteful. But how would you draft that such that it wouldn't eliminate libraries and museums? I mean, I agree with you in spirit but at the end of the day the whole point of a democratic government is that it's empowered to work to better our collective lives. And that has…

Might be a way to do it with a tax on private stadium construction. Allow deducting (private costs - all public subsidies). So for any local subsidies you receive, you have a commensurate increase in taxes.

Similar problems exist with subsidies for factories, although at least those are producing something at the end of the day.

Re: Taxpayers Should Never Subsidize Stadiums

#16

Post by existencebox »

ams6110 wrote: post #7
ajross wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would one propose to make it illegal for an elected government to finance construction of a public building? I mean, yeah, sports stadiums are wasteful. But how would you draft that such that it wouldn't eliminate libraries and museums? I mean, I agree with you in spirit but at the end of the day the whole point of a democratic government is that it's empowered to work to better our collective lives. And that has…

> But how would you draft that such that it wouldn't eliminate libraries and museums Maybe we should. These days, public libraries are little more than homeless shelters. I haven't been to one in at least 5 years for that reason, and printed books are largely irrelevant in today's world anyway. Museums could be operated by private non-profits and foundations. No need to have taxpayers directly finance their construct…

This is such an absurd comment I have to counter it.

The library near me is wonderful, and my wife regularly goes there just because of how peaceful it is and how broad their e-book collection is for her bus rides. I'm in a normal no-name township, nothing particularly wealthy. Same goes for the library where I grew up, and from visits back, it's in about the same state. Volunteer work there was integral to my growing up, and accessibility to the books there was 100% of the reason I became such an avid reader.

Just because you don't like libraries, and you may have seen some bad ones, doesn't mean you should seek to remove one of the remaining bastions of government services that purely serve to better the quality of life accessible to all. (I'd cite PBS as well)

I'd say the same about museums. To abscond from a public duty to educate and provide information, we religate ourselves to the unfortunately trend of a citizenship lacking in critical thinking and inquisitiveness.

If govt spending is such a key issue, it's mind-boggling that one would focus on such trivial non-%'s as opposed to the largest allocations, of which there are MANY well-discussed inefficiencies.

Re: Taxpayers Should Never Subsidize Stadiums

#17

Post by paulie_a »

ajross wrote: post #3
mlinksva wrote: post #2

Needs to be made illegal (not just stadiums) http://www.governing.com/gov-institute/on-leadership/col-eco... or at least not federally subsidized https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/134... https://www.goodjobsfirst.org/ is a good general resource on the issue.

How would one propose to make it illegal for an elected government to finance construction of a public building? I mean, yeah, sports stadiums are wasteful. But how would you draft that such that it wouldn't eliminate libraries and museums? I mean, I agree with you in spirit but at the end of the day the whole point of a democratic government is that it's empowered to work to better our collective lives. And that has…

Pretty easy, private corporations are different than public non profit organizations. Football stadiums may weasel into non profit. But it is absolutely a for profit organization. I've never been to a library that requires an ultra expensive tickets. Museums have a reasonable rate for expenses in conjunction with donors.

It's a two part but simple questions for lawmakers: are you a profit making entity or are you not. if you are, please explain the benefits you will provide to the taxpayer, and it better wow me.

If it does go forward there should be contractual guarantees on jobs and tax revenue with fines for not producing.

Cities don't need to attract football teams. Football teams should be begging cities to allow them there.

Re: Taxpayers Should Never Subsidize Stadiums

#18

Post by i_am_proteus »

ams6110 wrote: post #7
ajross wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would one propose to make it illegal for an elected government to finance construction of a public building? I mean, yeah, sports stadiums are wasteful. But how would you draft that such that it wouldn't eliminate libraries and museums? I mean, I agree with you in spirit but at the end of the day the whole point of a democratic government is that it's empowered to work to better our collective lives. And that has…

> But how would you draft that such that it wouldn't eliminate libraries and museums Maybe we should. These days, public libraries are little more than homeless shelters. I haven't been to one in at least 5 years for that reason, and printed books are largely irrelevant in today's world anyway. Museums could be operated by private non-profits and foundations. No need to have taxpayers directly finance their construct…

I am sorry you have had bad experiences with public libraries. My local (suburban) public library does not resemble a homeless shelter. The population therein usually consists of younger (15-25) and older (50+) people who are generally clean and quiet. If physical books were irrelevant, publishers would all be out of business, and also the books I'm looking for in the library would never be unavailable due to already being borrowed by another user.

Re: Taxpayers Should Never Subsidize Stadiums

#19

Post by krapp »

ams6110 wrote: post #7
ajross wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would one propose to make it illegal for an elected government to finance construction of a public building? I mean, yeah, sports stadiums are wasteful. But how would you draft that such that it wouldn't eliminate libraries and museums? I mean, I agree with you in spirit but at the end of the day the whole point of a democratic government is that it's empowered to work to better our collective lives. And that has…

> But how would you draft that such that it wouldn't eliminate libraries and museums Maybe we should. These days, public libraries are little more than homeless shelters. I haven't been to one in at least 5 years for that reason, and printed books are largely irrelevant in today's world anyway. Museums could be operated by private non-profits and foundations. No need to have taxpayers directly finance their construct…

>Maybe we should. These days, public libraries are little more than homeless shelters.

Odd, I've been in plenty of public libraries, and I've been able to access a number of useful services in them, and none have been homeless shelters, either literally or figuratively.

> and printed books are largely irrelevant in today's world anyway

No they're not, no more than movies, television, radio, or any other form of media that exists despite digital media.

Maybe your personal, limited experience doesn't scale up to a general view of human culture as well as you think it does.

Post reply on HN