Privacy Inequality: The Most Brutal Form of Inequality You’ve Ever Imagined • Hacker News Board

Re: Privacy Inequality: The Most Brutal Form of Inequality You’ve Ever Imagined

#31

Post by _8j50 » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 7:22 PM UTC

slfnflctd wrote: post #4

I'd say actual human slavery - which I can easily imagine from extensive historical records - is probably worse. Yeah, mysterious data centers logging everything you do is scary, but have you ever been beaten bloody because you lacked the physical ability to pick the required cotton quota? Whoever wrote this title needs a serious dose of perspective. And to rewrite the title.

One can argue deprivarion of privacy for the powerless masses can lead to a society so hopelessly controlled and manipulated by the elite class that return of slavery with an even worse level of brutality suddenly becomes a practical possibility.

Slavery as you portrayed it went away but people who possess the desire to see it back in place are still alive and well.

I don't mean lack of democracy but lack of ability for the masses to have their voice heard or will respected

Re: Privacy Inequality: The Most Brutal Form of Inequality You’ve Ever Imagined

#32

Post by rjf72 » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 7:22 PM UTC

jka wrote: post #19

Batman8675309 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also argue torture being something worse. Hell, even online privacy inequality isn't the worst thing that comes to mind. Steal my browser history all you want if the alternative is to steal my identity and my money.

Not to be too morose / Black Mirror about it, but what would sociopaths in the wealthy 'protected class' described in the article do, with all their free time and resources and immunity from scrutiny? I'd suggest they'd push the 'predictable' to play out games (theater, tragedy, whatever) for their own entertainment - a form of unwitting slavery or perhaps torture in the case of real emotional pain caused to the unwi…

Why would it be an out there idea when analogous sorts of behavior is something that happens at all levels? You only need to look at the middle class to see the same thing quite visible in action. There are endless incidents of individuals treating e.g. homeless individuals as something less than human. Attacking them, having them engage in demeaning behavior for pittances, and so on. It's not like being of any class inherently stops one from acting out sadistic forms of "entertainment."

Re: Privacy Inequality: The Most Brutal Form of Inequality You’ve Ever Imagined

#33

Post by dnautics » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 7:30 PM UTC

em-bee wrote: post #21

slfnflctd wrote: post #4

I'd say actual human slavery - which I can easily imagine from extensive historical records - is probably worse. Yeah, mysterious data centers logging everything you do is scary, but have you ever been beaten bloody because you lacked the physical ability to pick the required cotton quota? Whoever wrote this title needs a serious dose of perspective. And to rewrite the title.

the big difference is that with slavery and related forms of inequality, the brutality is obvious. with privacy it isn't. slavery has no future because once discovered, it's easily stopped today, and it will be even more easy in the future. privacy violations on the other hand are much more difficult to discover and stop, if people are even aware of the problem. the real danger here is that your privacy is violated a…

Yes, and the correct adjective for that is insidious, not brutal.

Re: Privacy Inequality: The Most Brutal Form of Inequality You’ve Ever Imagined

#34

Post by em-bee » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 7:42 PM UTC

dnautics wrote: post #33

em-bee wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the big difference is that with slavery and related forms of inequality, the brutality is obvious. with privacy it isn't. slavery has no future because once discovered, it's easily stopped today, and it will be even more easy in the future. privacy violations on the other hand are much more difficult to discover and stop, if people are even aware of the problem. the real danger here is that your privacy is violated a…

Yes, and the correct adjective for that is insidious, not brutal.

good point, but there is no reason it can't be both. insidious brutality exists.

Re: Privacy Inequality: The Most Brutal Form of Inequality You’ve Ever Imagined

#35

Post by cinquemb » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 7:42 PM UTC

_8j50 wrote: post #31

slfnflctd wrote: post #4

I'd say actual human slavery - which I can easily imagine from extensive historical records - is probably worse. Yeah, mysterious data centers logging everything you do is scary, but have you ever been beaten bloody because you lacked the physical ability to pick the required cotton quota? Whoever wrote this title needs a serious dose of perspective. And to rewrite the title.

One can argue deprivarion of privacy for the powerless masses can lead to a society so hopelessly controlled and manipulated by the elite class that return of slavery with an even worse level of brutality suddenly becomes a practical possibility. Slavery as you portrayed it went away but people who possess the desire to see it back in place are still alive and well. I don't mean lack of democracy but lack of ability…

For me, I think this can be summed to: asymmetric use of $x against $y can lead to $z.

My question, not for you but in general, what tool (or what functions of such tool will be nessisarcy) for lowering chances of $z (if indeed $z is agreed to be undesirable by many in all forms and not just for virtue signaling) as applied to privacy and its exploitation for large gains skewed in favor for the few?

Re: Privacy Inequality: The Most Brutal Form of Inequality You’ve Ever Imagined

#36

Post by shoo » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 8:03 PM UTC

borjamoya wrote: post #24

bilbo0s wrote: post #5

The article paints a pretty bleak picture, but it's even worse when we consider that even the author has bought in to privacy destroying narratives and technologies. I mean, the guy just posted an article on privacy inequality on a site that requires a third party login to discuss said article??? Don't even get me started on his belief that Elon Musk and companies like Tesla will be bulwarks against privacy inequalit…

I can log in with my email on Medium... You just sign in, they send you an email confirmation, and you're in.

I guess the third party might be "A Medium Corporation"

Re: Privacy Inequality: The Most Brutal Form of Inequality You’ve Ever Imagined

#37

Post by commandlinefan » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 9:22 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #27

This is mostly a whiny article followed by an ad for the author's site which starts by wanting either your email or your money. There are better advocates for stronger privacy. A good starting position is that the US needs something as strong as the EU's GDPR. With teeth. Might happen. See this Register article.[1] We need a good event involving the privacy of some political official, preferably one on the right. The…

> “whiny article”

“I thought repeating a grade was my fault, but later I realized it was the teacher’s fault”. Really? Look, not to step on any toes here but... how many other kids in your “village” had to repeat grades? Didn’t they have the same teachers?

Re: Privacy Inequality: The Most Brutal Form of Inequality You’ve Ever Imagined

#38

Post by bilbo0s » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 9:31 PM UTC

_8j50 wrote: post #31

slfnflctd wrote: post #4

I'd say actual human slavery - which I can easily imagine from extensive historical records - is probably worse. Yeah, mysterious data centers logging everything you do is scary, but have you ever been beaten bloody because you lacked the physical ability to pick the required cotton quota? Whoever wrote this title needs a serious dose of perspective. And to rewrite the title.

One can argue deprivarion of privacy for the powerless masses can lead to a society so hopelessly controlled and manipulated by the elite class that return of slavery with an even worse level of brutality suddenly becomes a practical possibility. Slavery as you portrayed it went away but people who possess the desire to see it back in place are still alive and well. I don't mean lack of democracy but lack of ability…

What you're talking about is not slavery. It might be loosely termed "institutional oppression". Basically, an oligarchic dictatorship.

Money and information are used to coerce your conformity and obedience. BUT, a person can legally opt out and just live with nothing.

Slavery is when brute physical force is used to coerce conformity and obedience. A slave can NEVER legally opt out. and the slave ALWAYS lives with nothing, because he IS property.

I'd imagine most humans would choose to live with being forced to behave in society to get money, and then going home, rather than to have to live with cradle to grave slavery. To equate them is just, kind of, being a little sensationalist.

Re: Privacy Inequality: The Most Brutal Form of Inequality You’ve Ever Imagined

#39

Post by bilbo0s » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 9:50 PM UTC

em-bee wrote: post #34

dnautics wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and the correct adjective for that is insidious, not brutal.

good point, but there is no reason it can't be both. insidious brutality exists.

Insidious brutality exists, but privacy inequality is not an example of it is the point that people are making.

Re: Privacy Inequality: The Most Brutal Form of Inequality You’ve Ever Imagined

#40

Post by _8j50 » Sun, Jan 06, 2019, 3:57 AM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #38

_8j50 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can argue deprivarion of privacy for the powerless masses can lead to a society so hopelessly controlled and manipulated by the elite class that return of slavery with an even worse level of brutality suddenly becomes a practical possibility. Slavery as you portrayed it went away but people who possess the desire to see it back in place are still alive and well. I don't mean lack of democracy but lack of ability…

What you're talking about is not slavery. It might be loosely termed "institutional oppression". Basically, an oligarchic dictatorship. Money and information are used to coerce your conformity and obedience. BUT , a person can legally opt out and just live with nothing. Slavery is when brute physical force is used to coerce conformity and obedience. A slave can NEVER legally opt out. and the slave ALWAYS lives with n…

No,i meant slavery as in 1800s whiplashing and lynching slavery.

Institutional oppression is what you think I meant,what i meant was a dystopian future where privacy erosion has lead to a world where your every move and intention is analyzed for conformity by the elite class. You can optin and opt out,elect leaders or overhtrow dictators because you can organize in groups,think and plan without your adversary knowing your every move.

If someone controls what information you consume and every reaction you have to a given scenario or information then they can control you to the point where even the brutal form of slavery can be thought of as acceptable.