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Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

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Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#81

Post by snarfy »

slazaro wrote: post #77
snarfy wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are assholes to smokers. Like, it's socially acceptable to be assholes to smokers these days. I've had random people on an almost daily basis harass me for smoking. Flicking my butts on the ground was a big fuck you to all of the non smokers that harassed me.

Being an asshole to assholes... makes you an asshole regardless.

It's a vicious cycle. That's kind of my point. Smokers are assholes because they were harassed. Non-smokers harass smokers because they are polluting assholes.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#82

Post by sureaboutthis »

kevcampb wrote: post #60

The Ocean Conservancy report has been cited by quite a few articles now, and it pains me every time I see it. As ever, the conclusions drawn are quite misleading. 1) The source of the data is cleanup on beaches, not ocean trash. If anything it's more likely to be representative of items discarded on beaches or waterways. 2) Cigarette butts are greatest purely in number of individual pieces, not in terms of weight or…

It's television "news". Why would anyone expect better? The headline tomorrow will say/read, "A new study shows ..." and state the exact opposite.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#83

Post by adetrest »

feelix wrote: post #45
woodruffw wrote: post #5

Only tangentially related, but I am continually astonished by the absence of any sort of social norms surrounding cigarette butt disposal. I have (otherwise environmentally conscious!) friends who smoke, and I've personally witnessed them flick their cigarettes into gutters and on streets. As a serious question, without judgment: are there any smokers on HN who can explain the phenomenon?

When I used to smoke I did not litter butts when I could avoid it, but they are so disgusting (they stink, they make your fingers stink, if you wrap it in some paper or plastic and put it in your pocket your pants will stink) that you just want to get rid of it. Most things are easier to get rid of because you can put them in a bag or something until you come across a trash can.

The same could be said about shit, and yet people find ways to not shit whenever and wherever they feel like (extremely rare exceptions aside)

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#84

Post by alistairSH »

shireboy wrote: post #74
kevcampb wrote: post #60

The Ocean Conservancy report has been cited by quite a few articles now, and it pains me every time I see it. As ever, the conclusions drawn are quite misleading. 1) The source of the data is cleanup on beaches, not ocean trash. If anything it's more likely to be representative of items discarded on beaches or waterways. 2) Cigarette butts are greatest purely in number of individual pieces, not in terms of weight or…

Then it was also 10 Asian rivers that account for most plastic: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plas... I guess I understand it is a hard problem to calculate, but it is an area where I wish the approach was more reasoned and less governed by fad and hype. Sure clean and prevent straws and cigarette butts if that’s really a problem, but divvy our resources in proportion to where data says the…

The Asian rivers was something I learned fairly recently. It wasn't a big shock, but it wasn't obvious either.

Do you know if the report also broke down the rivers by size and waterfront population? IE, do the communities along those Asian rivers pollute more than those in the US or EU, or are they simply the largest rivers in the world by volume and/or local population?

(Yes, I know the Ganges in filthy)

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#85

Post by adetrest »

jcoffland wrote: post #30
Synaesthesia wrote: post #10

Quote from article: A leading tobacco industry academic, a California lawmaker and a worldwide surfing organization are among those arguing cigarette filters should be banned. The nascent campaign hopes to be bolstered by linking activists focused on human health with those focused on the environment. “It’s pretty clear there is no health benefit from filters. They are just a marketing tool. And they make it easier f…

I smoked both when I was younger and dumber. Unfiltered cigarettes turn your fingers, lips and teeth brown.

Filtered cigarettes do too, just slower. Look at people who've been smoking for a decade or two: their nails are yellow, their teeth are yellow, the hand holding the cigarette also has visible damage.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#86

Post by seer »

seriousSmoker wrote: post #73
seer wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is of course rational to throw trash when you don't give a fuck. The parent question is more about why people that do give a fuck otherwise, would flick and stomp their discarded cigarette buts. The question is interesting precisely because it falls outside the output you would get from a heuristic algo of "good people don't litter", "bad people do".

The next time you pass through a public restroom, count how many paper towels are on the floor. It doesn’t matter if it’s male or female. The results are always the same. If the bathroom provides paper towels, there’s almost always a non-zero quantity of wet paper towels stuck to the floor. If the bathroom only has electric hot air hand driers, there will be none. How do the paper towels get on the floor? The bathroo…

This one is a lot easier to model though isn’t it? If you accidentally drop a paper towel, the “psychological cost” of rising it from the floor is astronomically more than just using it - it would have floor dirt all over it. So it can easily go over your “nice person” threshold. Especially if as you’ve mentioned, there will be more towels on the floor - the broken windows theory.

All of this is exasperated by the general fear of dirt in western cultures, which leads to a lot of other well documented ill effects, especially in children. People are just way too grossed out to actually clean up, if there are no tools to do so in a clean manner.

All easy to explain, and you are right - if you do remove the littering option for people, and give them a reasonable alternative, they will litter less.

But the cigarette butts? They have only the “there’s some on the floor so it must be ok” going for them. But even so it seems rather weird.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#87

Post by hutzlibu »

shireboy wrote: post #74
kevcampb wrote: post #60

The Ocean Conservancy report has been cited by quite a few articles now, and it pains me every time I see it. As ever, the conclusions drawn are quite misleading. 1) The source of the data is cleanup on beaches, not ocean trash. If anything it's more likely to be representative of items discarded on beaches or waterways. 2) Cigarette butts are greatest purely in number of individual pieces, not in terms of weight or…

Then it was also 10 Asian rivers that account for most plastic: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plas... I guess I understand it is a hard problem to calculate, but it is an area where I wish the approach was more reasoned and less governed by fad and hype. Sure clean and prevent straws and cigarette butts if that’s really a problem, but divvy our resources in proportion to where data says the…

Cigarette butts are really a problem ... at least for me. They are disgusting. So even though they are not a significant source for ocean plastic, they should be avoided or cleaned.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#88

Post by Thriptic »

cgag wrote: post #43
lmilcin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking is addiction that is demonstrably bad for your health and has no benefits. I grew up in an environment where smoking was encouraged and I can understand a person that conforms to their buddies. I have personally never tasted it but when I was teen virtually everybody smoked and it took a lot of willpower to withstand the pressure. I think these days, in western world, except for schools, low income neighborho…

there are tons of benefits which is why people do it

I'm not sure why you are being downvoted because there are very clearly benefits to smoking in the form of stimulation and relaxation. Many people get started with smoking because it provides these benefits. People shouldn't do it because the overall risk profile is highly negative given the health impacts, but to say there are no benefits frames the problem completely incorrectly.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#89

Post by vbuwivbiu »

snarfy wrote: post #78
vbuwivbiu wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless people object to it, the behavior will continue. I'm that guy who'll tell someone who drops a cigarette butt to pick it up; to which the response is usually indignation or they ignore me, I figure at least I annoyed them.

> I figure at least I annoyed them And this is why they continue to do it. You get a response of indignation when you order random strangers in a free society how to behave. You'll get better results if you use guilt instead of demands.

no it's not - they do it because nobody says anything. If you do nothing you're implicitly accepting their behavior

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#90

Post by jngreenlee »

Honk + Thumbs Down at any driver you see tossing one out the window. Public shaming (not anger like a middle finger) can be very effective.

That said, this is probably 90% China as we saw with the ocean plastics source data. Not sure if this approach would work there.

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