Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash • Hacker News Board

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#51

Post by darkpuma » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:16 AM UTC

baddox wrote: post #39

darkpuma wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Are you saying it’s inconsiderate for people to not smell how you want them to smell?" That's not what I was saying, but actually that's also true. Good point. Smelling like a smoker is itself inconsiderate behavior. What I was actually saying is that smokers are generally inconsiderate people. This can be generally observed by interacting with the general public and noticing that people who smell like smokers are…

> Smelling like a smoker is itself inconsiderate behavior. I will straight up disagree with you there, and we can probably avoid a semantic argument over what “inconsiderate” means and just call it a day. In summary, I think “inconsiderate” ought only apply to behaviors that sufficiently violate the expectations of society, or in other words, just because you don’t like a behavior does not mean that behavior is incon…

A smoker does not go undetected simply by being considerate, the smoker's smell will give them away no matter how they behave. And I am very far from the only person who's noticed the smoker/inconsiderate connection.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#52

Post by darkpuma » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:18 AM UTC

seriousSmoker wrote: post #6

woodruffw wrote: post #5

Only tangentially related, but I am continually astonished by the absence of any sort of social norms surrounding cigarette butt disposal. I have (otherwise environmentally conscious!) friends who smoke, and I've personally witnessed them flick their cigarettes into gutters and on streets. As a serious question, without judgment: are there any smokers on HN who can explain the phenomenon?

Because we are trying to die, and simply do not give a fuck. Feed that into your facebook suicide watch/dark tetrad NLP algorithm, and use it as a political impetus for a smoking prohibition bill, and behavior modification after school program. Save the world from it’s final free thought. #YOLO

If nothing else I appreciate your honesty.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#53

Post by cbluth » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:20 AM UTC

cgag wrote: post #43

lmilcin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking is addiction that is demonstrably bad for your health and has no benefits. I grew up in an environment where smoking was encouraged and I can understand a person that conforms to their buddies. I have personally never tasted it but when I was teen virtually everybody smoked and it took a lot of willpower to withstand the pressure. I think these days, in western world, except for schools, low income neighborho…

there are tons of benefits which is why people do it

I hear death has some great benefits too, everyone's doing it.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#54

Post by metaphor » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:36 AM UTC

jobigoud wrote: post #19

This reads as a good news somehow, because it sounds like a solvable problem.

That's because it's a thinly veiled ad for a San Diego-based startup, which the "news" agency failed to disclose as much.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#55

Post by jstanley » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:44 AM UTC

ndnxhs wrote: post #46

cgag wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are tons of benefits which is why people do it

Such as?

Probably that it feels good. Same reason people do anything addictive.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#56

Post by jessaustin » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:47 AM UTC

homero wrote: post #20

craigsmansion wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because the butt is usually made to resemble some natural material like cork. Since the rest of it (paper, tobacco, and ashes) is easily degradable, I think the natural assumption is the butt is degradable as well, and the notion that every other smoker seems to think so isn't helping. So to answer the question: I suspect it's simply a lack of information. As a data point I'll add that I stopped deposing…

Yeah i thought it was biodegradable and thought they would melt away.

If they were biodegradable they wouldn't completely cover the shoulders of every road and highway.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#57

Post by KozmoNau7 » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 11:54 AM UTC

tlarkworthy wrote: post #50

woodruffw wrote: post #5

Only tangentially related, but I am continually astonished by the absence of any sort of social norms surrounding cigarette butt disposal. I have (otherwise environmentally conscious!) friends who smoke, and I've personally witnessed them flick their cigarettes into gutters and on streets. As a serious question, without judgment: are there any smokers on HN who can explain the phenomenon?

Yes, diacarding butts by stamping on them was the social norm way before environmentalism was a thing (like 1900s), and such it has its own cultural inertia passed down between smoking generations. Stamping on them was considered best practice to prevent fire i think. I stopped doing it though 2010ish once i realized they don't break down (now i dont smoke).

Discarding an old-fashioned filterless cigarette like that is (probably) not too bad. There are nasty compounds in the tobacco, but it's all biodegradable, relatively quickly.

The main problem is the cigarette butts from filter cigarettes, which have been the standard for decades. It's kinda stupid anyway. Smoking a known harmful substance, but oh let me filter it through this little piece of cellulose fiber wadding.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#58

Post by koolba » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 12:02 PM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #5

Only tangentially related, but I am continually astonished by the absence of any sort of social norms surrounding cigarette butt disposal. I have (otherwise environmentally conscious!) friends who smoke, and I've personally witnessed them flick their cigarettes into gutters and on streets. As a serious question, without judgment: are there any smokers on HN who can explain the phenomenon?

When something is taxed as much as cigarettes, it leads to a sense of entitlement for the user and an assumption that the cleanup cost is baked into the taxes.

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#59

Post by yayana » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 12:04 PM UTC

ndnxhs wrote: post #46

cgag wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are tons of benefits which is why people do it

Such as?

A social network with other smokers in proximity. Regular breaks from work that they don't forget to make. Regular time outside of a sealed office space..

There are definite short term advantages to smokers. There (_)used to be similar short term advantages for those who drank during work hours when it was socially acceptable.

(_ Used to might be wrong.. Startups with designated drinking times that seem to be mandatory are annoying but not irrational given their short term interests.)

Re: Cigarette butts are the single greatest source of ocean trash

#60

Post by kevcampb » Sat, Jan 05, 2019, 12:06 PM UTC

The Ocean Conservancy report has been cited by quite a few articles now, and it pains me every time I see it. As ever, the conclusions drawn are quite misleading.

1) The source of the data is cleanup on beaches, not ocean trash. If anything it's more likely to be representative of items discarded on beaches or waterways.

2) Cigarette butts are greatest purely in number of individual pieces, not in terms of weight or volume.

The following paper reports fishing nets to be the largest contributor to ocean plastic (by volume). Cigarette butts aren't even worthy of a mention in their report (see Supplementary Table 4 which lists the top 5 items per item size group).

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-22939-w