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Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

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Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#471

Post by rorykoehler »

NightlyDev wrote: post #129
ransom1538 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After years of experience: 0) Native means you get notifications: APNS, GCM. 1) If you don't go native, you go SEO. SEO is hard.

Web has had notifications for years too.

I have never clicked yes to allow web notifications in my life. I have only once added a site as an icon on my mobile. The whole premise of this article is false. The real answer to whether to start with a site or an app is it depends. At Bibimapp we have an app [0] requiring sign up etc (launching beta next week) and a related site which is free to browse which provides value but approaching the problem space from a different angle. The site is essentially the top of the funnel.

[0] https://bibimapp.com/

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#472

Post by therealx »

vertexFarm wrote: post #242
casper345 wrote: post #111

80% of apps are uninstalled in the first 10min (especially if they ask for information or creating an account). Once uninstalled very unlikely they will ever install again. In my dev shop, I always advise clients to look into website MVP over apps unless IT IS CRITICAL to the functionality. Websites can always bring back ppl who were initially uninterested. Faster development/instant updates. Better tracking and UX a…

Thank you! I personally think that mobile web and app design has been one of the greatest atrocities in tech. Not only is it trash on mobile, it's spread and made lots of sites trash on desktop as well because people seek a one-size-fits-none solution. I personally go by the rule that if your service can work as a website, it should be a website. Not ever a standalone app unless there are important requirements which…

You might really like this device, it runs a real desktop Linux and has a really nice keyboard. Its still ARM but meets everything else: https://store.planetcom.co.uk/products/gemini-pda-1

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#473

Post by dredmorbius »

airstrike wrote: post #250
ecp9 wrote: post #137

I don't even bother installing apps anymore, I don't have time to research whether or not they are going to abuse my privacy or have some horrendous TOS. I got my core 10 apps and haven't bought a new one in a year.

> I don't even bother installing apps anymore, I don't have time to research whether or not they are going to abuse my privacy or have some horrendous TOS. I'm going out on a limb but I'd wager you're not exactly representative of the general userbase for which apps are developed.

The question is not whether or not HN users' decision processes aare representative, but whether or not the end results are.

App adoption and use, overall, is low.

Consumers Spend 85% Of Time On Smartphones In Apps, But Only 5 Apps See Heavy Use https://techcrunch.com/2015/06/22/consumers-spend-85-of-time...

App Download and Usage Statistics (2018)

The total number of mobile app downloads in 2017 – 197 billion (a forecast)

That's an average of about 50/user, with an 80%+ abandonment rate, and a median all but certainly far lower.

How many Android apps are there now? Well, by June of 2017 it reached 3 million Android app mark! The current rate of its growth is more than 1,300 apps a day.

This is not a good thing.

..despite the sea of choice for mobile apps available for both iOS and Android, in real life people tend to use on a daily basis only a few. Here is how much exactly – 10 apps a day on average or 30 apps on monthly basis.

http://www.businessofapps.com/data/app-statistics/

77 percent of users never use an app again 72 hours after installing

https://www.androidauthority.com/77-percent-users-dont-use-a...

How Many Apps Do Smartphone Owners Use? Most apps are not even retained for a full day

A Localytics survey, conducted by Research Now in October 2015, reports that 49% of US smartphone app users use six to 10 smartphone apps each week.

https://www.emarketer.com/Article/How-Many-Apps-Do-Smartphon...

New data shows losing 80% of mobile users is normal, and why the best apps do better

https://andrewchen.co/new-data-shows-why-losing-80-of-your-m...

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#474

Post by choward »

beckler wrote: post #201
shams93 wrote: post #2

Given the fact that most people are already maxed out on apps on their device with just things like facebook and youtube, you're going to be hard pressed to get people to install your app just to try it out. With a progressive web app if they like your app they can add it to their device home screen without installing via the app store and without using up space on their device. Also don't need to pay Apple $100 a ye…

I think PWAs are still considered more of a novelty. If they really ever catch on, I could see where apple might require you to start hosting some kind of cross-signed cert or something that you can only get from Apple to install/use them.

> If they really ever catch on, I could see where apple might require you to start hosting some kind of cross-signed cert or something that you can only get from Apple to install/use them.

And you would find this acceptable? I would find this appalling. Apple can charge for the App Store because over the overhead. It hosts the servers that have to transfer the apps. It runs an App Store to help with discoverability. It also maintains the API developers use.

In the case of PWAs, none of these are true. There is no overhead for running an App Store for Apple. I could see there being a fee to be in the App Store. That should be up to the developer though. If you are doing the work of getting people to install the app yourself, you owe them nothing.

In Apple's defense, they do have to do the work of building in PWA support to iOS/Safari. But if you are paying over $1,000 for a device you better damn well be able to install a PWA.

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#475

Post by charleslmunger »

xd1936 wrote: post #312
oftenwrong wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies saddle their mobile web experience with excessive animations, gobs of dynamic elements, screen-hogging navigation bars/sharing buttons/overlays, poorly-implemented infinite scrolling, etc, etc... and then they conclude that mobile web sites are bad and native apps are good. People have forgotten that you can build a website that isn't a user-hostile SPA train-wreck.

Amen. Twitter[1] and Starbucks[2] have both built gorgeous PWAs in the last couple of years that are perfect replacements for 98% of a native app's functionality. It can be done, people! 1. https://blog.twitter.com/engineering/en_us/topics/open-sourc... 2. https://twitter.com/davidbrunelle/status/905931990444244995

Twitter's mobile web site is the most unreliable site I encounter with any frequency. Fully 80% of the links I get to Twitter fail to load, telling me to try again, which only works when I fully refresh the page.

I don't know how it compares to their native app.

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#476

Post by me551ah »

Lets say that there are 2 products, both of them offering similar functionality which is useful to a user. One of them only offers a progressive webapp and the other a native app. I can't think of a single example of where a product offering the former has won over the latter.

Does anyone know of any products which have succeeded despite not having a mobile app ( while their competitors did)?

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#477

Post by Gigablah »

enraged_camel wrote: post #159
jermaustin1 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like this concept. Using the smart phone more like a PDA than a tiny laptop. What are your 10 core apps if you don't mind sharing?

For me: Personal Capital (finance), WhatsApp, Slack, Overcast (podcasts), Kindle, Dark Sky (hyper accurate weather app), Google Authenticator, Lyft, RENPHO (my smart scale’s app), 1Password Everything else is very situational and totally optional.

I have Authy instead of Google Authenticator — not that there’s anything wrong with the latter, but if you lose your phone it’s much more of a hassle.

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#478

Post by jk801 »

casper345 wrote: post #111

80% of apps are uninstalled in the first 10min (especially if they ask for information or creating an account). Once uninstalled very unlikely they will ever install again. In my dev shop, I always advise clients to look into website MVP over apps unless IT IS CRITICAL to the functionality. Websites can always bring back ppl who were initially uninterested. Faster development/instant updates. Better tracking and UX a…

> Faster development/instant updates. Better tracking and UX anazyling.

That’s a horrible argument in my opinion. Yes, it is more convenient from a developer’s or a business point of view. But what if the user sees more value in an app than a website, shouldn’t that be the first thing to consider?

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#479

Post by propogandist »

JohnFen wrote: post #391
ecp9 wrote: post #137

I don't even bother installing apps anymore, I don't have time to research whether or not they are going to abuse my privacy or have some horrendous TOS. I got my core 10 apps and haven't bought a new one in a year.

I am very, very sparing about installing apps. However, I'm even MORE cautious about browsing to websites, unless I can disable all client-side scripting. At least I can firewall apps to mitigate any abuse they may engage in. That's much harder to do with websites.

just use Umatrix - https://github.com/gorhill/uMatrix

you can get the add-on for Firefox mobile also. It can be a hassle for the lazy user, but the addon will provide visibility into scripts, cookies and services used by websites.

Most scripts are blocked by default which dramatically improves page load times and privacy.

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