Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Bootstrapping 10er, a Patreon-similar service for Danish creators

failory.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 51 posts

Re: Bootstrapping 10er, a Patreon-similar service for Danish creators

#31

Post by pjc50 »

sschueller wrote: post #28
raarts wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have the same policy of not allowing hate speech and the like For whoever is interested: this is the (Google translated) text in the Terms of 10er: "The service must not be used for any illegal activity. Nor should the service be used in connection with violent, hateful, racist or similar activities. Brainbow defines in its own right what can be classified as being in one of these categories." You are indeed not…

I don't understand this. Why not base it on what is legal by law in your country? Require a court order to have things removed. Take Paypal and who ever to court in your country if they deny you service because of this and threaten to have their permits to do business in your country removed.

Quite a lot of people don't want to facilitate this kind of thing, and certainly don't want to have their name associated with it.

Re: Bootstrapping 10er, a Patreon-similar service for Danish creators

#32

Post by mikker »

pjc50 wrote: post #31
sschueller wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this. Why not base it on what is legal by law in your country? Require a court order to have things removed. Take Paypal and who ever to court in your country if they deny you service because of this and threaten to have their permits to do business in your country removed.

Quite a lot of people don't want to facilitate this kind of thing, and certainly don't want to have their name associated with it.

Exactly. I fully support anyone’s right to say what they want. But I’m a business and if your business is racist bullshit (for example) I don’t want to do business with you.

I’m not censoring nor silencing nor putting anyone in prison. But I’m politely refusing to receive your money and work with you.

Money isn’t everything.

Re: Bootstrapping 10er, a Patreon-similar service for Danish creators

#33

Post by sschueller »

pjc50 wrote: post #31
sschueller wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this. Why not base it on what is legal by law in your country? Require a court order to have things removed. Take Paypal and who ever to court in your country if they deny you service because of this and threaten to have their permits to do business in your country removed.

Quite a lot of people don't want to facilitate this kind of thing, and certainly don't want to have their name associated with it.

There is the underlying issue. If you don't fight for those people who you don't agree with or despise although legal you will eventually loose your freedoms too.

If you want free speech you need to protect all of it.

Re: Bootstrapping 10er, a Patreon-similar service for Danish creators

#34

Post by megous »

ForHackernews wrote: post #30
megous wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't done web payments for quite a while, but the way it was done 12 or so years ago was, that you generated some signed data for inserting into a hidden input inside a " rel="nofollow">https://payment-processor.com/...> , and put that into a page server side. This would include all the order and merchant info. You'd also add a submit button with a "Pay now" text. User would then submit the form and that would t…

Users dislike that because it bounces them to a different site.

Going to a different site was sold as a benefit (given that the different site is/was the biggest and the most used bank in the country - so this helps with the trust issue).

Also it's strictly superior to iframe hackery anyway. At least you can check that the site is not trying to scam you for your CC info, which you really can't (as a normal user) when the site is using iframes, because you'll not see iframe's URL in the URL bar.

Re: Bootstrapping 10er, a Patreon-similar service for Danish creators

#35

Post by raarts »

mikker wrote: post #32
pjc50 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite a lot of people don't want to facilitate this kind of thing, and certainly don't want to have their name associated with it.

Exactly. I fully support anyone’s right to say what they want. But I’m a business and if your business is racist bullshit (for example) I don’t want to do business with you. I’m not censoring nor silencing nor putting anyone in prison. But I’m politely refusing to receive your money and work with you. Money isn’t everything.

That's all fine and dandy, but the problem is that in this case there is no alternative, and if they are created, they are shut down, because payment processors like Paypal and Stripe refuse to do business with them.

Payment processors currently have too much power. They should be legally refrained from choosing their customers, just like telecom companies for example. In most free countries telecom companies are not allowed to refuse/block customers based on people's political views. And rightly so.

Re: Bootstrapping 10er, a Patreon-similar service for Danish creators

#36

Post by dpau »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #9
Fomite wrote: post #8

"I never created a Patreon account for us though. Everytime I began I never finished signing up. The whole thing just seemed like a hassle. Too many input fields and things to consider and graphics to provide. Patreon expects creators to create more content for patrons. We felt we were already giving away lots with our already free content." I actually really like this philosophy. I run a tiny, niche miniatures warga…

Similarly, I find it awkward when creators email me about secret stuff only available to patrons. The magic is that your stuff is free! I don’t want to be incentivising this. The free content led me to donate in the first place. The only way to achieve this is to donate so little, you don’t get any access to secret material. Patreon defeats the purpose of Patreon.

Completely agree! Patreon misses the point of Patreon.

I guess people are more likely to become patrons if there's some reward, and Patreon wants to encourage growth. But in doing so they are creating an environment where there's an expectation that we, the creators, spend precious time making special, walled-off content when the whole point of my needing Patreon is because my content is free. Besides the irony of the situation, I'm too busy also making content for other social media in order to promote my work. Please make it stop!

Re: Bootstrapping 10er, a Patreon-similar service for Danish creators

#37

Post by pjc50 »

sschueller wrote: post #33
pjc50 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite a lot of people don't want to facilitate this kind of thing, and certainly don't want to have their name associated with it.

There is the underlying issue. If you don't fight for those people who you don't agree with or despise although legal you will eventually loose your freedoms too. If you want free speech you need to protect all of it.

On the other hand, if I facilitate people arguing for fascism I will also eventually lose freedoms if they win. And in the meantime make a number of other people just that little bit more miserable.

Re: Bootstrapping 10er, a Patreon-similar service for Danish creators

#38

Post by zozbot123 »

pjc50 wrote: post #37
sschueller wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is the underlying issue. If you don't fight for those people who you don't agree with or despise although legal you will eventually loose your freedoms too. If you want free speech you need to protect all of it.

On the other hand, if I facilitate people arguing for fascism I will also eventually lose freedoms if they win. And in the meantime make a number of other people just that little bit more miserable.

"Fascism" has never won by arguing, though. It isn't even a well-defined ideology! Fascism means using political violence (i.e. beating people up, or worse) to seize power in something very much like a coup d'etat; it really is as simple as that. That's not free speech, and it's not even something that our government protects. Threats are illegal. Purported "speech" that poses a clear and present danger is illegal.

Re: Bootstrapping 10er, a Patreon-similar service for Danish creators

#39

Post by PopeDotNinja »

dpau wrote: post #36
nothrabannosir wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, I find it awkward when creators email me about secret stuff only available to patrons. The magic is that your stuff is free! I don’t want to be incentivising this. The free content led me to donate in the first place. The only way to achieve this is to donate so little, you don’t get any access to secret material. Patreon defeats the purpose of Patreon.

Completely agree! Patreon misses the point of Patreon. I guess people are more likely to become patrons if there's some reward, and Patreon wants to encourage growth. But in doing so they are creating an environment where there's an expectation that we, the creators, spend precious time making special, walled-off content when the whole point of my needing Patreon is because my content is free . Besides the irony of t…

That's an interesting idea. I watch videos, and I don't mind videos that promote their Patreon page and/or other member exclusive benefits. They are free to make videos how ever they like, but I wonder is promoting member exclusive content actually undermines their success.

For example, in this SciShow video => https://youtu.be/fsS6d4byK4A?t=143

- make free content, get free viewers

- promote Patreon to viewers, get patrons

- promote premium content to free viewers, alienate free viewers

- lose free viewers, shrink pool of potential patrons

I guess some pitches are more invasive than others.

Re: Bootstrapping 10er, a Patreon-similar service for Danish creators

#40

Post by ForHackernews »

megous wrote: post #34
ForHackernews wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users dislike that because it bounces them to a different site.

Going to a different site was sold as a benefit (given that the different site is/was the biggest and the most used bank in the country - so this helps with the trust issue). Also it's strictly superior to iframe hackery anyway. At least you can check that the site is not trying to scam you for your CC info, which you really can't (as a normal user) when the site is using iframes, because you'll not see iframe's URL…

I'm sure that's correct, but I doubt most users are that sophisticated.
Post reply on HN