Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 67 posts

Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#31

Post by yourbandsucks »

squirrelicus wrote: post #26
yourbandsucks wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, 'death camps'? That's mind-killing rhetoric. "Let's have a cold war" rhetoric. The USA imprisons a way higher % of our population without trial than the Chinese do. Check the plea bargain stats. Is it China's place to try and police our internal problems?

Not necessarily. Heard of the Uyghurs? The Chinese authorities have not been known for thinking Others have human rights, at least since Mao. Since when did putting millions of ethnic or political minorities in death camps become synonymous with imprisonment for crimes actually committed. You know what you get when you get imprisoned in America? Food, warmth, and lawyer and a judge! I'm not saying being imprisoned is…

Since when was China a monolith since Mao? Ever heard of a guy named Deng?

I'd suggest reading some Chinese history, and also a bit about the current plea bargain disaster in the USA, if you think all of those people actually got due process.

As far as us being world police and telling other nations how to manage their affairs.. I'm against it. The Chinese government has done a lot of good and a lot of bad. Let's worry about our domestic problems first.

We should continue to trade, keep the peace, and continue the amazing 30-year-run the world has had since the end of the cold war. Starting another one would cause a lot of harm.

Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#32

Post by grecy »

Latteland wrote: post #27
grecy wrote: post #17

After traveling for over 2.5 years through 30 countries in Africa (still going)[1], I've learned travel advisories are extremely Political. Senegal wants to get a fair price for it's resources and asks for that? France issues a travel warning and decimates their tourist industry for a few years. It's common place for Western countries to issue travel warnings when they just don't like what a certain country is doing…

Sounds believable that countries do these alerts for sometimes political reasons, but China is actually keeping people from leaving the country for unspecified reasons and is seizing people, even their own citizens.

Plenty of countries do bad things to their own citizens that have absolutely no impact on foreign tourists who visit.

I'm not saying it's OK, but it's hardly a reason to warn people not to go there.

Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#33

Post by acct1771 »

Latteland wrote: post #27
grecy wrote: post #17

After traveling for over 2.5 years through 30 countries in Africa (still going)[1], I've learned travel advisories are extremely Political. Senegal wants to get a fair price for it's resources and asks for that? France issues a travel warning and decimates their tourist industry for a few years. It's common place for Western countries to issue travel warnings when they just don't like what a certain country is doing…

Sounds believable that countries do these alerts for sometimes political reasons, but China is actually keeping people from leaving the country for unspecified reasons and is seizing people, even their own citizens.

The reason why those seizures are happening is why this "escalatory" bulletin is newsworthy.

This is another bullet point in an escalation trend we've been seeing between the West and China, mostly surrounding infrastructure and political pressure/flurries of arrests and high profile detainments, in both regions.

Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#34

Post by bduerst »

squirrelicus wrote: post #30
bduerst wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was tongue-in-cheek remark, since they said camps. Is having a legal visa a requirement for having human rights? How many Americans were thrown in Chinese death camps last year?

What human rights are being violated again? You don't have a right to just be in America. That's not a human right. The whole point of this article is that China has just begun threatening Americans, so what happened last year is irrelevant.

>You don't have a right to just be in America.

Nobody is claiming this straw man. Read more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_detention_in_the_U...

So you agree that China hasn't thrown Americans into death camps? This rhetoric leans more towards being motivated in part from a failing trade war with China, not based on a real threat.

Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#35

Post by yourbandsucks »

joejerryronnie wrote: post #28
yourbandsucks wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're proving my point with that rush to demonize. The travel warning has nothing to do with uighur camps. Americans and Canadians aren't Uighur and aren't part of that conflict. It's like saying nations would issue travel warnings about the US because of fear of drone bombs. This is an escalating tit-for-tat related to the Huawei CFO. And all too many are just so certain that the place they were born is just so rig…

I would argue the Huawei CFO situation is just another escalation in the tit-for-tat battle that accompanies a rising power trying to displace an existing power. Most times, this leads to armed conflict of one sort or another.

I mean, in the long arc, sure, but I'd really like to not see it get there.

The Huawei thing just seems so avoidable. We renege on a deal with Iran that the Iranians were honoring, we start a trade war with China for mostly domestic-political reasons, and then we lump the 2 together into a justification for borderline-kidnapping of their citizen in Canada?

Whatever happened to getting together at the table and negotiating about this stuff?

Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#36

Post by squirrelicus »

yourbandsucks wrote: post #31
squirrelicus wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. Heard of the Uyghurs? The Chinese authorities have not been known for thinking Others have human rights, at least since Mao. Since when did putting millions of ethnic or political minorities in death camps become synonymous with imprisonment for crimes actually committed. You know what you get when you get imprisoned in America? Food, warmth, and lawyer and a judge! I'm not saying being imprisoned is…

Since when was China a monolith since Mao? Ever heard of a guy named Deng? I'd suggest reading some Chinese history, and also a bit about the current plea bargain disaster in the USA, if you think all of those people actually got due process. As far as us being world police and telling other nations how to manage their affairs.. I'm against it. The Chinese government has done a lot of good and a lot of bad. Let's wor…

Here's some context.

October, China ups the rhetoric https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/china-vows-defend-tai...

January, China ups the rhetoric more. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/01/world/asia/xi-jinping-tai...

Taiwan is a military ally of the USA. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_non-NATO_ally

And then immediately after this the govt said travel there is risky.

If China tries to invade Taiwan to take it back, the USA must go to war or the entire alliance network on top of which world peace was constructed will lose its reputation. For our grandchildrens' futures lest NATO collapse (because why contribute if the USA won't defend you), going to war with China to deny them Taiwan might be the only option.

Shit is more serious than you think. War is brewing. Right now.

Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#37

Post by bowmessage »

ssnistfajen wrote: post #25
stcredzero wrote: post #8

According to YouTubers fitting the description, lots of ex-patriate westerners have been leaving China in recent months. The climate there has changed from tolerant/friendly towards westerners to "we don't need you." (serpentza and laowhy86 on YouTube are how I became aware of this.)

More like those two did not possess enough skills to qualify for a better visa. No country inherently needs immigrants who can't contribute anything. Zero sympathy for them. laowhy86 and serpentza subsisted off a horde of uninformed people who couldn't be bothered to even read Wikipedia articles about a country. This is evident through the clickbait-y style and non-existent intellectual depth of their videos.

Guess you didn't watch their motorcycle touring videos? Astounding, hyper-local, cultural documentaries. Very much contributing to the country.

Or you're another state sponsored troll?

Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#38

Post by joejerryronnie »

yourbandsucks wrote: post #35
joejerryronnie wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue the Huawei CFO situation is just another escalation in the tit-for-tat battle that accompanies a rising power trying to displace an existing power. Most times, this leads to armed conflict of one sort or another.

I mean, in the long arc, sure, but I'd really like to not see it get there. The Huawei thing just seems so avoidable. We renege on a deal with Iran that the Iranians were honoring, we start a trade war with China for mostly domestic-political reasons, and then we lump the 2 together into a justification for borderline-kidnapping of their citizen in Canada? Whatever happened to getting together at the table and negoti…

Not that I disagree with your reasoning (and that going after Meng Wanzhou is a strange and seemingly unnecessary escalation), but China does not really negotiate honestly or play by any set of recognized international rules. I guess you could say the same of the US, but then you see the dilemma.

My, unfortunately cynical, takeaway is that no matter how “woke” we like to think we have become as a global society, everything still eventually boils down to might makes right.

Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#39

Post by cmurf »

squirrelicus wrote: post #30
bduerst wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was tongue-in-cheek remark, since they said camps. Is having a legal visa a requirement for having human rights? How many Americans were thrown in Chinese death camps last year?

What human rights are being violated again? You don't have a right to just be in America. That's not a human right. The whole point of this article is that China has just begun threatening Americans, so what happened last year is irrelevant.

Refugees do have rights, and signatory states have obligations under the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees and as amended in the 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees. The U.S. is signatory to the convention and protocol. And also the 1980 Refugee Act applies in the U.S.A.

Re: U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions

#40

Post by ssnistfajen »

bowmessage wrote: post #37
ssnistfajen wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like those two did not possess enough skills to qualify for a better visa. No country inherently needs immigrants who can't contribute anything. Zero sympathy for them. laowhy86 and serpentza subsisted off a horde of uninformed people who couldn't be bothered to even read Wikipedia articles about a country. This is evident through the clickbait-y style and non-existent intellectual depth of their videos.

Guess you didn't watch their motorcycle touring videos? Astounding, hyper-local, cultural documentaries. Very much contributing to the country. Or you're another state sponsored troll?

That was in their early days when they were not as desperate to resort to clickbait.

Do you use shill accusations against every person you disagree with? I almost feel sorry for your vile attitude and ignorance.

Post reply on HN