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Ethereum Plans to Cut Its Energy Consumption by 99 Percent

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Re: Ethereum Plans to Cut Its Energy Consumption by 99 Percent

#301

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

rocqua wrote: post #159
SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you show when this has successfully happened? Can you show a popular coin that the devs went one direction with, a different group didn’t like, forked, and became more used than the original?

CryptoNote It is the predecessor to Monero, development there stalled in politics, and some people forked Monero. Admittedly, it wasn't very big when the split happened. I'm not sure of the capitalization.

Hmm, CryptoNote doesn't seem to be a currency at all. It seems to be a code base behind other currencies as much as I can tell. CryptoNoteCoin seems to be a reference implementation that isn't "real".

The discussion is when did a coin - fork into a different coin and become more successful than it's predecessor?

Because if it's "well, never... yet!", then the argument that "development is centralized but that's ok because you can just fork it if you don't like the developer's plans" - is effectively a lie.

Also, while I probably know way less than you on this overall, I do know Monero has seen successful because it's effective to be run as a scam on victim computers (mining malware) and on websites that use JS on your computer to mine coin. Almost all the web and malware mines Monero. It gives me the impression as the least legitimate coin I can think of because of the number of times I've seen this.

Re: Ethereum Plans to Cut Its Energy Consumption by 99 Percent

#302

Post by softawre »

tudorconstantin wrote: post #162
wpietri wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the price of ETH is higher than the price of the energy needed to mine it. The energy consumed has demonstrable value, but that's yet not true for ETH. As many people have said here, it's experimental. And of course, there's a fair bit of financial speculation going on. But as far as I know, it's generating no significant value on its own.

What does it even mean "demonstrable value"? If a person is willing to spend money (for energy, or for buying crypto on an exchange), we can say crypto has "demonstrable value" for that person, no matter what they want to do with that crypto.

Does it have value to society? That is the question. Of course it has value to people if they are willing to pay for it.

Re: Ethereum Plans to Cut Its Energy Consumption by 99 Percent

#303

Post by collincusce »

r32a_ wrote: post #58
nivexous wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof-of-stake will ultimatumly fail. The majority stakeholders can change the protocol at will to their benefit, and there’s no defense (without mob theft). With proof-of-work, at least miners can defend or fork. Best of luck to them though.

Also once a majority of stakeholder hit 51% there is no way to take away the 51% With PoW, an entity could theoretically out mine the 51% attacker by just throwing more hashing power at bitcoin

2/3rds is required for a full 51%-style attack in PoS.

https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Proof-of-Stake-FAQs#wh...

There's a lot of misinformation regarding PoS. Vlad Zamfir has spoken a lot on cartel attacks and how they're mitigated, but the biggest, and I mean bigger than biggest, argument against all of these attacks is that it's always detectable by honest nodes shy of 2/3rds attack and it defaces the value of the coin itself to attack at that volume.

Re: Ethereum Plans to Cut Its Energy Consumption by 99 Percent

#304

Post by collincusce »

hanniabu wrote: post #52
anthonybsd wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. Pure, non hybrid PoS has never been deployed on any crypto at scale. The fact that Ethereum is on their 3rd iteration and still can't figure out how to make it work years after promised delivery should be alarming at least.

That's incorrect. There are plenty of chains with pure PoS, and the reason it's taking Ethereum so long is because they have an established PoW chain that they are trying to seamlessly transition to PoS. At the same time they are also working on taking into consideration more aspects like how it works with their platform/smart contracts and sharding. I'm sure there's many other considerations I'm not aware of as well…

I haven't seen a pure PoS chain and I'm pretty heavy in the space. I HAVE seen a LOT of dPoS chains, which isn't the same.

Re: Ethereum Plans to Cut Its Energy Consumption by 99 Percent

#305

Post by Sargos »

zrm wrote: post #292
logfromblammo wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With old money, reversibility is handled by return policies, merchant account charge-backs, liens, and civil lawsuits. If you hand a bearer instrument like a bank note to someone, that transaction is technically irreversible. They put it in their pocket, and you can't recover it without a physical assault. You have to trust them to provide the goods or services that you just paid for. Or you have to trust the justice…

You can't have atomic transactions when one half of the transaction isn't electronic. If I pay someone for a laptop and instead of a laptop I receive a box of rocks, I can claim they didn't send the laptop and they can claim they did. There is no way for a third party to know who is lying. The recipient could be lying to get a refund when they received the laptop, the sender could be lying to get paid when they sent…

This is also the problem that eBay faced in the 90s. It mostly solves it with social mechanisms like reputation scores and in general it does a pretty good job. I think we'll see a lot more solutions like that in the future.

Re: Ethereum Plans to Cut Its Energy Consumption by 99 Percent

#306

Post by tdmat »

jki275 wrote: post #279
jsutton wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of the network is that it's owned and driven by the community. The community decided it was prudent to fork. It's not an issue with decentralization. The majority of the ETH world clearly does believe that, because ETH is where the vast majority of the community has stuck with.

The majority of the community believed in the fork, that's what I meant if I wasn't clear. That belief is contra to the concept of an immutable decentralized ledger, which means ETH isn't canonically a cryptocurrency, an immutable ledger, or a decentralized ledger anymore. The upcoming (well, it's never going to happen) POS fork is going to centralize it further among the very small number of massive whales who contr…

would you like to stake some ether on the claim that's it's never going to happen? I'm willing to bet 10 Ether we see POS before the end of 2021..

Re: Ethereum Plans to Cut Its Energy Consumption by 99 Percent

#307

Post by collincusce »

wmf wrote: post #32
anthonybsd wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tezos uses delegated PoS, so no, I don't think it qualifies. D-PoS is sort of antithetical to the idea of decentralized blockchain due to a small number of nodes and very questionable process of node (witness) selection.

Won't any pure PoS system naturally evolve stake pooling that looks like DPoS?

You need to control 2/3rds of the stake and be able to coordinate decisions with each staking node before the block time is over to fuck up the network. Considering that PoS can enable more tunable block times as validators no longer will churn out random numbers on GPUs/ASICs to mine a new block, I think this will be a non-issue.

Re: Ethereum Plans to Cut Its Energy Consumption by 99 Percent

#308

Post by tdmat »

jpadkins wrote: post #274

How different is PoS and PoW in practice (for ASIC eligible blockchains)? I need to devote X units of currency to get Y hashrate to gain 51%. This is a stake, needed to achieve a certain level of PoW. One difference is PoS requires stake only from internal currency (you must buy/mine a stake in that currency), vs ASIC PoW you can use a foreign currency to buy your 'stake'. This might mean PoS is less volatile, or res…

i can run POS node on a medium instance from AWS.

Re: Ethereum Plans to Cut Its Energy Consumption by 99 Percent

#309

Post by konschubert »

r32a_ wrote: post #42
0x8BADF00D wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing Ethereum to AWS is an apples and oranges comparison at best. One is first order, and the other is second order. You could make an argument it’s a competitor to AWS Lambda, but it would be akin to saying lxc is a serverless competitor.

I'm not comparing them, Ethereum marketing team pitched Ethereum as a world computer not me.

You are misunderstanding what they mean with “world” computer

Re: Ethereum Plans to Cut Its Energy Consumption by 99 Percent

#310

Post by asynchrony »

tdmat wrote: post #306
jki275 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of the community believed in the fork, that's what I meant if I wasn't clear. That belief is contra to the concept of an immutable decentralized ledger, which means ETH isn't canonically a cryptocurrency, an immutable ledger, or a decentralized ledger anymore. The upcoming (well, it's never going to happen) POS fork is going to centralize it further among the very small number of massive whales who contr…

would you like to stake some ether on the claim that's it's never going to happen? I'm willing to bet 10 Ether we see POS before the end of 2021..

Ethereum does seem to be the platform of choice for odd gambling games.
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