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Ask HN: How old were the most talented software engineers you've met?

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Re: Ask HN: How old were the most talented software engineers you've met?

#121

Post by drugme »

nlh wrote: post #29

I've met two deeply talented software engineering minds in my life, and they fall on opposite ends of the spectrum: The first I met when I was in my mid-20s and he was about 17. Gifted kid, absolutely. He'd published a programming book (!) and could do things with JavaScript that, in 2001, nobody had even thought of doing until the mid 2010s. Totally undisciplined of course -- we hired him and he refused to follow an…

Totally undisciplined of course -- we hired him and he refused to follow any instructions, got bored easily, thought he knew better than his engineering manager, and was ultimately fired after about 3 months on the job.

Or in other words - apparently quite talented as a coder; but as an engineer not so much.

Re: Ask HN: How old were the most talented software engineers you've met?

#123

Post by YorkshireSeason »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #92
carlmr wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The ones I am thinking about are people who pick up new things absurdly quickly; pick up on patterns very easily; have general experience in enough domains to make quick connections; etc. That's my experience as well. Generalists are often the most productive people. A good generalist can often grasp the whole system faster than a niche programming language specialist. And you usually don't need those niche programm…

As a specialist who is currently looking for a job, HR generally only seeks generalists. Almost all interview loops that have been standardized seriously prefer generalists. The mold doesn’t fit anyone and are just generic programming/system design questions that do not evaluate specialist skills and experience at all. PL specialists are also pretty good generalists. I mean, what hasn’t Jeff Dean done and do people e…

   PL specialists are also pretty 
   good generalists.
It has also been my experience that people with a PL / compiler background are often great generalists. At Google I can think of at least the following:

Jeff Dean, Fergus Henderson, Ken Thompson, Rob Pike, Ben Gomes, David Stoutamire, David Bailey, Urs Hoelzle, Hal Abelson, Martin Abadi, Peter Norvig, Sanjay Ghemawat.

There are more but can't think of them off the top of my head. Chris Lattner is a non-Google example.

(As an aside, I see a similar phenomenon -- albeit at a much lower level of ability -- in my undergratuate students, and I've supervised a large number: top students almost always do well in / and have enjoyed their compilers course.) Why would that be the case? I can offer 3 hypotheses for discussion.

1. PL / compiler stuff is so trivial that everybody can be good at it.

2. PL / compiler stuff is so difficult that only the smartest can be good at it.

3. PL / compiler stuff forces you to think deeply about the most important tools in programming, namely the CPU and programming languages, and the bridge between them (the compiler).

I'm inclined to go for (3).

Re: Ask HN: How old were the most talented software engineers you've met?

#124

Post by rc_hadoken »

lbriner wrote: post #85
beachy wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP but to me, as best as I can tell from some self-analyzing, as you get older your brain just doesn't fizz and spark like it did way back when. It works in a different way - more pattern recognition, less raw grunt. Could be because of biochemistry, or maybe just that you don't have the blissful ignorance of youth, you know there are limits, you don't tend to just hurl yourself against the fences quite as re…

I think this might describe what you are referring to: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/02/170206155947.h... I heard somebody say that as you age, you rely more on memory to infer the correct decision whereas when you are young, memories are few and decisions based either on gut feel or the current context. I guess that means that older people are more likely to do something they have already done because i…

Question: do you exercise? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3951958/ Let's not lump all older people into the same cognitive malaise. Disclaimer: I'm in my late 20s.

Re: Ask HN: How old were the most talented software engineers you've met?

#125

Post by j45 »

FundThrowaway wrote: post #11
diab0lic wrote: post #7

40+ I always wonder about ageism in tech referenced regularly here. Without a doubt the rockstars I know are more experienced and consequently older. If you exclude older software engineers you're probably excluding the best talent and thus can't claim to hire only the top x% of talent. Note: I don't belong to this group in age or talent.

I work out in Asia and over here a big reason for ageism in tech is a misunderstanding of development talent, there is a belief that coders are coders and that's all there is to it, young coders tend to be willing to work longer hours and basically work until they burn out so management sees them as the superior option since salaries and benefits are lower. edit: Since I'm getting down voted for whatever reason here'…

This is something that doesn't seem real in your 20s, but a realization in your early 30s.

Edit: There is an important balance to keep the enthusiasm of your 20s for a long time, and keeping a little wisdom of recognizing those situations that want to take advantage of a few years of your life in your 30s and being a little more conscious about it.

Re: Ask HN: How old were the most talented software engineers you've met?

#127

Post by zrth »

blueside wrote: post #126

I can honestly say that the two most intelligent programmers I have ever met are no longer programmers and not even in tech related jobs now. I try not to think about this, it makes me wonder what they figured out that I haven't.

Ok, i think we all want to hear more about this.

Re: Ask HN: How old were the most talented software engineers you've met?

#128

Post by pvarangot »

headalgorithm wrote: post #51
nlh wrote: post #29

I've met two deeply talented software engineering minds in my life, and they fall on opposite ends of the spectrum: The first I met when I was in my mid-20s and he was about 17. Gifted kid, absolutely. He'd published a programming book (!) and could do things with JavaScript that, in 2001, nobody had even thought of doing until the mid 2010s. Totally undisciplined of course -- we hired him and he refused to follow an…

It would be interesting to know what the 50-something was like when they were younger. Did they have the characteristics of the 20-something rock star.

I've worked with fortysomething guys that were "10x engineers" or "rockstars" when young a few times. One of them was very smart but really kind of a one trick pony engineer, he kind of always wanted to use the same hammer to solve every problem and that got in his was of self improvement and awareness. The Dunning Krueger effect was strong with him.

The other guy is kind of a legend and never ever stopped being a rockstar and kind of rockstared a few new fields and technologies again. He's also really humble but at the same easy knows exactly what he can do and what he can't do and is very good at always being at 100%.

Re: Ask HN: How old were the most talented software engineers you've met?

#129

Post by jeffreyrogers »

drugme wrote: post #121
nlh wrote: post #29

I've met two deeply talented software engineering minds in my life, and they fall on opposite ends of the spectrum: The first I met when I was in my mid-20s and he was about 17. Gifted kid, absolutely. He'd published a programming book (!) and could do things with JavaScript that, in 2001, nobody had even thought of doing until the mid 2010s. Totally undisciplined of course -- we hired him and he refused to follow an…

Totally undisciplined of course -- we hired him and he refused to follow any instructions, got bored easily, thought he knew better than his engineering manager, and was ultimately fired after about 3 months on the job. Or in other words - apparently quite talented as a coder ; but as an engineer not so much.

To be fair, he was 17. I think you learn a lot about how to be an employee on the job.

Re: Ask HN: How old were the most talented software engineers you've met?

#130

Post by dve »

blueside wrote: post #126

I can honestly say that the two most intelligent programmers I have ever met are no longer programmers and not even in tech related jobs now. I try not to think about this, it makes me wonder what they figured out that I haven't.

Reading this comment just made me realize the same. The two best developers I have worked with no longer write code.
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